Boycott London

[Guest]

Boycott London

Oops, so I did. Sorry.

There's no problem, I just don't understand what is hoped to be achieved.

I hope it went well.

[WOM]

Boycott London

Can we take a step back a minute and talk about the, I don't know, the 'ethics' or the 'rightness' of protesting someone's election in a democratic system? I mean, this man didn't seize power or steal the election (see the anti-Bush protests for reference). He was legally and democratically elected, no? Shouldn't that be respected as the legitimate voice of a segment of the population?

[DCI Harry Batt]

Boycott London

Ly - you said "it doesn't address the actual problem". It was in that context that I was asking what the actual problem is.

WOM - I think I already did the "legally, schmegally" thing, but I'm happy to say it again. As it goes, as has been said, I wasn't doing anything to stop him tonight (though I would, happily). I can't imagine that anyone could possibly have a problem with people expressing their opinions, which is all that was happening tonight.

But no, a Nazi can't be respected as the whatever, we've seen what happens in that situation, and I'm not prepared to countenance it.

[Guest]

Boycott London

The actual problem being that x number of idiots voted for him and x number of other idiots didn't arse themselves to vote at all, I think.

I don't think I have a problem with the people at City Hall who say they won't work with this bastard, either. They can elect him but they can't make anyone cooperate, etc.

[WOM]

Boycott London

I'm not saying that people shouldn't express their views or their opinions. But that's what the election itself was for. To protest the outcome seems like you only respect the result if it's one you agree with. I mean, clearly there are Londoners who wouldn't have respected you winning. And while I don't doubt you'd respect their right to say so, doesn't the protest sort of seek to nullify the wishes of those who voted for him? That seems wrong in a way, Nazi or not.
And is he really a Nazi, or are we just throwing that word around? BNP isn't truly Nazi, is it?

[DCI Harry Batt]

Boycott London

To Lyra

Aha, ok.

I don't think that voting, on its own, is anything very much at all. the effects of voting, though, they are something to think about.

The effect of having a Nazi elected to City Hall is likely to be the same as elsewhere - shag all difference in the chamber, fascists and racist thugs feeling more confident outside, leading to an increase in racist abse, attacks, and murders.

And, for me, that's the actual problem.

[WOM]

Boycott London

The actual problem being that x number of idiots voted for him and x number of other idiots didn't arse themselves to vote at all, I think.

Which says to me that those who were arsed to vote were clearly more motivated to make their feelings known, which could speak to a more serious underlying issue. History is indeed made by those who bother to show up.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Boycott London

WOm - yes, he's a Nazi, a member of a Nazi party. I'm not one for throwing terms such as Nazi and fascist around at anyone and everyone on the right, odious though they may be. I think using the terms correctly is important. But that means not shying away from using the terms when they are appropriate.

Their leaders, their methods, their history, their practice all show them to be so. Read all about them.

[San Bernardhinault]

Boycott London

BNP are nationalists, and (as much as they have any economic policy) socialist (in the sense of nationalising industry and stuff, before someone picks me up on this), and they're racists, and linked to racist violence and murders, and pretty much fit any description you want of fascist or nazi.

[WOM]

Boycott London

Well, that paints quite a picture of him, doesn't it?

I'm conflicted. If I believe in the process, I need to believe in the outcome - even if it involves someone clearly unsavoury. Argh.

[San Bernardhinault]

Boycott London

Awkwardly, I think I agree with WoM.

If 5% of the public think they want a nazi assembly member, then 5% of the assembly members should be nazi.

That said, of course, I don't think anyone at the GLA should be obliged to work with the cunt, and everyone should do all they can to point out that he's a racist twat who has no place in serious politics.

[Guest]

Boycott London

It's difficult to believe that what they do isn't covered by other laws, though.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Boycott London

I'm not willing to accept that any %age of voters is entitled to impose racist abuse, attacks and murder on fellow citizens.

[WOM]

Boycott London

Yes, but that's really just one way of framing it, isn't it?
Another is to accept that some people believe quite fervently in "England for the English" and immigration steals jobs and 'all this business about homosexuals is wrong'. Surely those people are entitled to having their views represented, as wrong and unpalatable as they may be to the majority.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Boycott London

And then I suppose you weigh one up against the other, and decide which side you're on. Me, I think that giving confidence to racist murderers is the more important of the two.

That's not to say it's a total answer, of course. There are many other things we need to do as well. Actually addressing the issues which are exploited by this kind of filth is very important.

[E10 Rifle]

Boycott London

I've been periodically ambivalent over the years about the whole 'no platform' thing, but what I can't accept is the implication that because five per cent, or whatever, of people in London voted for this cunt then we should nonetheless sit back and let the mechanics of democracy take their course and hope voters - or potential racist attackers/murderers - act more wisely in future. Barnbrook and his chums want, at the very least, relentlessexposing and harrying - BNP candidates' views on everything from mixed-race relationships to rape are fucking barbaric. One elected representative's City Hall paper-shuffling doesn't take place in a vacuum.

It's almost a cliched thing to say but democracy and politics isn't just about putting a tick in a box every four years. It happens every day. By the same logic of 'respecting the electorate's vote', isn't it therefore also wrong to, say, go on strike against pay cuts imposed by a Democratially Elected Government? I would hope people's answers to that would be "no".

[Guest]

Boycott London

So how was the Demo anyway TT?

[Tubby Isaacs]

Boycott London

legally, schmegally

I think that's fair enough but the law won't in the end be entirely irrelevant because the BNP is as capable as the next man of getting advice as to what their rights are and going through the courts to get them. What happens then?

[DCI Harry Batt]

Boycott London

Villain - too small, of course, but then I've never been on one that wasn't. Pretty positive, some good speeches, some less good ones, a message from Pete doherty, a bit of music, a march round City Hall, and home again.

A lot of "what next"-ing from people there, which is a good thing. Personally, I'd like to blockade the building until he resigns, but I think I'd be out on a limb on that one.

Tubby - it depends on the forces on the ground, really. Derek Beacon never made it into a single council meeting, as far as I'm aware.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Boycott London

I didn't know that, though he wasn't there for long, was he? And he wouldn't have known what to do anyway. Surely there will eventually come a point when Barnbrook at least makes it in the building, under police protection or not. Well worth postponing, of course.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Boycott London

9 months, I think, though again I could be wrong. And you're right, they don't as a rule have a clue what to do once inside.

He'd struggle without any secretarial support, without any IT support, without a working phone, without receiving mail, without being able to get a cup of coffee in the building....

For example.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Boycott London

9 month sounds right- lucky the seat came up again really. As others have said, Barnbrook doesn't have a seat to let down, so it's much worse.

Can he not appoint his own staff to some extent? It sounds a Blairite sort of thing to build into the system.

The BNP councillors at Barking seem to be contactable just like any other, which is not encouraging. I wonder to what extent the same battles have already gone on there.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Boycott London

I'm not suggesting it will be easy, or necessarily succesful. Just that it's worth having a go, and that it's possible to bring people together to cause the nazis maximum disruption.

[Anton Gramscescu]

Boycott London

Legally, the guy won a seat because some people agreed with what he has to say.

Equally legally, there are a lot of things that people who rightly find this dude repugnant can do to disrupt him and stop him from being effective in his elected position. I'm all for that. If people want to break the law as a matter of civil dispbedience to disrupt him too, then that's their choice as well, bless 'em.

Provided the tactics don't spill over into violence, what's the problem?

[Guest]

Boycott London

I agree with what Antonio and E10 said, my feeling is that this cunt should be removed as early as possible; but I worry that the morons that voted for him will feel even more oppressed, radicalised, etc... as TonTon said, exposing them and educating people is vital. But how? I've heard actual sensible people saying stuff about 'british culture disappearing' and 'too many immigrants taking my job' etc. It seems to be a message that's so insidious, a lot of people have picked up on the kind of edges of it, probably (hopefully) without understanding what's at the centre. And I just fear that angry protest sometimes reinforces people's feelings of being suppressed, not listened to, etc.