30 years ago today...

[Billy Casper]

Taking john's advice and looking at the back of my driving licence, I apparently I passed on 19.11.85. I can't remember a single thing about it.

My mum passed her test in later life (in her 40's) after about three years of lessons. On her third trip out by herself someone threw her the 'V's and she never drove again.

[sw2borshch]

A mate of mine passed a month or two after we turned 17, had 8 or so lessons, merrily drove his dad's pick-up and brother's car about for 2 years at which point he could no longer legally drive as he never got round to sending his provisional off to get endorsed and still hasn't done owt about it now we're 45.

I never passed.

[Felicity, I guess so]

Took me 4 goes to pass, in my 30s.

Should've passed the 2nd time, but I had an examiner called 'the quiet assassin' by my instructor- 3 minor faults = fail, one of which was 'not changing gear quickly enough'

I was never interested in cars, by the time I was trying to pass i realised i should've done it in my late teens when you're used to sitting exams anyway. I now almost never drive to work- it's far more stressful than cycling or even a heavily delayed metro system.

[HORN]

My mum passed her test in later life (in her 40's) after about three years of lessons. On her third trip out by herself someone threw her the 'V's and she never drove again.

That's such a shame.

Whenever another driver provokes me I temper my reaction by "How would I conduct myself if there were four blokes built like brick shithouses in the other car?".

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

The info is on the back of my driving licence.

I've checked mine and it was 8 July 1998, so I wasn't far off in my guess.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

By and large, it's a sucker's bet. You end up paying for the lion's share of the vehicle, and walking away with nothing.

If fixed income is the issue, get her a bank car loan to buy something solid and used. At least she'll have an asset she can drive for many years instead of giving back in 36 months.

This market is something of a bubble in the UK at the moment, everyone's getting in on it, enchanted by the thought of a new car every 2-3 years. I prefer your suggested approach, I buy cars with 20-30,000 miles on, pay for them over say two years and run them to around 100,000 miles. Even at my level of mileage that means maybe four years of use, of which the last two are 'free', aside from the additional maintenance costs (and even then you can get quite lucky).

[Gangster Octopus]

How do people remember the exact date they passed their test?

It was my grandmother's birthday, which is why I remember it.

I took my test in my own car, a Honda Z600, 'cos I couldn't drive anything else at the time. Within a month I'd driven over Hard Knott in a 2CV with three mates all standing up, and within two I'd driven the 400 mile trip to Glenelg overnight after watching the World Cup final in the pub. I drove a fuck of a lot in those days.

A Honda Z600:

[Logan Mountstuart]

I remember the joy on my daughter's face when she passed her test. She said it was the best exam she had ever passed. And she's passed a lot. I felt pretty much the same at 18.

No such joy for my nephew in England though. While my daughters happily drive around in my old camper and my ex-wife's car for no extra cost (but under the fear of parental wrath, of course), my poor nephew has hardly driven as the joyless British insurance system has priced him out of the market.

I remember taking my hgv in France. I was under huge pressure to pass at the time. My wife and daughter had already moved to Holland while I cleared up our life in France and took the exam before moving. I needed to be able to earn a decent wage as soon as I got to NL and the hgv was the logical route for me. At the time I had downsized to a tent and it was already November. Also, as someone mentioned above, it was my first exam for 15 years. The day after I passed I left for Holland.

The point was, in France it took a month to pass and cost about a third of the price of the Dutch test. In Holland it took about 6 months with all sorts of study on the side.

I remember one of the questions on the French theory test. "You have just drunk a half litre of rouge. How long do you have to wait before you can legally drive again? ". So French. Of course your going to have your demi of rouge.

In GB at the time they didn't even have a theory test and you could move straight to class E with a minimum of 6 motorwayless hours on the road. Another example of Britain being brought up to European basic standards since then.

Still, I suppose Brexit means they could go back to having shitty truckers in their (generally) shitty trucks if they so desired. Not to worry though, after Brexit, their would be very few of them on the continent anyway.

[hobbes]

By and large, it's a sucker's bet. You end up paying for the lion's share of the vehicle, and walking away with nothing.

In a sense this is true, but from another point of view, I could lay out £33k for a new Tiguan, drive it for 3 years and sell it for say £23k. So it's cost me £10k and I either had to lay out £33k up top, or pay interest on a loan.
In that time, the car is mine so I'm responsible for servicing etc.

Or, I can lease one for 3 years for £11500. For that extra £500 a year, I don't have to think about it, I don't have to sell it and I don't have to be in hoc to a bank so it doesn't show up as debt. I'm renting the car long term.

It might cost an extra £10/week to do it that way, but it'll be saving me £5 or £6 a week in interest payments on the loan, so it's almost revenue neutral. And I don't get dicked around by the buyer when I want a new one in 3 years.

It's cars that depreciate far quicker than say VWs that you get stung on. You're essentially paying the drop in value plus a commission. And car sellers like to keep turnover going so it can work out nice with a deal.

[WOM]

I'll grudgingly agree with most of that. And it works IF you want to walk away from a car in three years. Clearly a personal preference sort of thing.

But why on earth would you? The biggest % drop in depreciation is in the first three years, so either way you've absorbed the worst of it and then said "Yeah, I'll get out now." Basically, buying high and selling low.

If you held on to the car for the extent of its useful life - lets say seven or 8 years - you'd come out miles ahead. Sure, you'll spend more on maintenance the older the car gets, but that's predictable and not unreasonable.

Also, whether you own or lease a car, you're still responsible for servicing, etc. Warranties rarely cover 'wear items' like tires, brakes and oil changes, and everything else would be covered by the standard manufacturers warranty.

[hobbes]

VW include servicing for £250 for 3 years. Tyres and brakes won't go in 3 years, certainly on my mileage. I also won't need to MOT the car or road tax it.
And I don't really want to drive an 8 year old car. Been there, done that. Old cars are rubbish.

[Pérou Flaquettes]

I remember one of the questions on the French theory test. "You have just drunk a half litre of rouge. How long do you have to wait before you can legally drive again? ". So French. Of course your going to have your demi of rouge.

For a long time, the typical Routier 3-course menu would include free wine (vin à volonté), often delivered through "wine fountains" (fontaines à vin). I remember getting quite sozzled in a Routier on my way down south in the mid-1980s (I wasn’t driving, I’d hitch-hiked from the north and was picked up by a lorry).

It’s now illegal, thank God for that, but only since 2015, the very powerful wine & alcohol lobby had to finally concede defeat over that but the health ministry (Marisol Touraine) battled hard to push through that legislation.

Touraine, 56, whose broad portfolio in François Hollande’s Socialist government covers social affairs, health and women’s rights, said: “There’s a form of denial over this. In all my political career, I’ve never known such passion over a subject. There will be a debate about wine in parliament at 4am and you think all the MPs will be at home asleep, but no, they turn up. It’s a very French debate.”

Routiers can still offer wine with their menu but no more than a small jug or two glasses.

Par exemple, la formule d’un restaurant ouvrier ou routier comprenant un menu vin compris se limitant à un pichet ou à un ou deux verres est légale car la nourriture reste l’objet principal du menu. En revanche, une formule avec vin à volonté est illicite. De même, les formules « all inclusive » sont illégales en France. Source : article L 3322-9 du Code de la Consommation, guide des débits de boissons de la documentation française.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

In a sense this is true, but from another point of view, I could lay out £33k for a new Tiguan, drive it for 3 years and sell it for say £23k. So it's cost me £10k and I either had to lay out £33k up top, or pay interest on a loan.
In that time, the car is mine so I'm responsible for servicing etc.

Or, I can lease one for 3 years for £11500. For that extra £500 a year, I don't have to think about it, I don't have to sell it and I don't have to be in hoc to a bank so it doesn't show up as debt. I'm renting the car long term.

It might cost an extra £10/week to do it that way, but it'll be saving me £5 or £6 a week in interest payments on the loan, so it's almost revenue neutral. And I don't get dicked around by the buyer when I want a new one in 3 years.

It's cars that depreciate far quicker than say VWs that you get stung on. You're essentially paying the drop in value plus a commission. And car sellers like to keep turnover going so it can work out nice with a deal.

What kind of Tiguan can you get for £33k in the UK Hobbes? That's broadly speaking what you'd pay for the entry level petrol model in ireland, and cars are meaningfully more expensive here.

[hobbes]

It's a 2.0 TDi BMT 150 4Motion SE-Nav DSG. SO the 4 wheel drive auto mid range model. (I wasn't arsed about 4WD obviously, but it was the only automatic available and P wanted an auto.)

The entry level Tiguan S with a 2WD 1.4 TSi engine is about £24k here.

[Pérou Flaquettes]

I remember the joy on my daughter's face when she passed her test. She said it was the best exam she had ever passed. And she's passed a lot. I felt pretty much the same at 18.

No such joy for my nephew in England though. While my daughters happily drive around in my old camper and my ex-wife's car for no extra cost (but under the fear of parental wrath, of course), my poor nephew has hardly driven as the joyless British insurance system has priced him out of the market.

I remember taking my hgv in France. I was under huge pressure to pass at the time. My wife and daughter had already moved to Holland while I cleared up our life in France and took the exam before moving. I needed to be able to earn a decent wage as soon as I got to NL and the hgv was the logical route for me. At the time I had downsized to a tent and it was already November. Also, as someone mentioned above, it was my first exam for 15 years. The day after I passed I left for Holland.

The point was, in France it took a month to pass and cost about a third of the price of the Dutch test. In Holland it took about 6 months with all sorts of study on the side.

I remember one of the questions on the French theory test. "You have just drunk a half litre of rouge. How long do you have to wait before you can legally drive again? ". So French. Of course your going to have your demi of rouge.

In GB at the time they didn't even have a theory test and you could move straight to class E with a minimum of 6 motorwayless hours on the road. Another example of Britain being brought up to European basic standards since then.

Still, I suppose Brexit means they could go back to having shitty truckers in their (generally) shitty trucks if they so desired. Not to worry though, after Brexit, their would be very few of them on the continent anyway.

One of the few advantages of the military service was that you could take all the driving licences for free, the HGV ones were particularly popular.

French HGV licences (permis de conduire de catégorie C) are now very expensive, a permis C(HGV) can cost up to €6,000 these days (if you include the FIMO licence, a training course I think, compulsory in some cases).

In the last decade, I’ve met people in their 30s in France who bemoaned the scrapping of the military service just because of that, as they'd wanted to work as lorry drivers but were put off by the costs. Not the sort of money you can magic out when you’re young and start out in life, especially as you must have the Permis B (car, about €1,000) before taking the lorry ones.

I think that the state and departments help a bit now (in particular Pôle Emploi, the Job Agency) towards those HGV licence costs as they seem to have spiralled out of control, notably with the massive costs of "training", which is considered a bit of a national scandal in France in many sectors. There are so many training agencies, it's unbelievable - 80,000 in total! - many take the state to the cleaners, it's such a rip-off, they cost the state about €35bn every year, for very mixed results.

https://www.francetvinfo.fr/replay-r...s_2047683.html)

https://www.huffingtonpost.fr/2018/0...rs_a_23371286/

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

It's a 2.0 TDi BMT 150 4Motion SE-Nav DSG. SO the 4 wheel drive auto mid range model. (I wasn't arsed about 4WD obviously, but it was the only automatic available and P wanted an auto.)

The entry level Tiguan S with a 2WD 1.4 TSi engine is about £24k here.

there's only one tiguain more expensive than this available in ireland, and that's the same machine with a 240 bhp engine. This is basically €44k in ireland, which £39k.

This is a bit like the discussion with WOM about his Land yacht, which costs the same in canada as a mid price corolla does here.

[hobbes]

There's the SEL and the R-Line above the SE-Nav in the UK.
The SEL is the "luxury" spec one and the R-Line has big wheels and a body kit. Looks mint. Top end one is £39k with the 240ps 4WD DSG engine.

You don't seem to have the R-Line over there.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Yeah, I don't think these models are comparable. there's only a TL, CL and HL model in Ireland, and there's no mention of the names you mention

[WOM]

The cupholders in the Ireland models accommodate a pint glass, which is nice.

[WOM]

Our Tiguan options are:
Trendline: $28,925 (16,571 GBP)
Comfortline: $34,325 (19,662 GBP)
Highline: $39,175 (22,440 GBP)

The 4Motion is a $2500 option on the Trendline, and a choice on the others.

[Gangster Octopus]

I've never driven a Volkswagon.

[hobbes]

I've never driven a Toyota.

[WOM]

Volkswagens are just lovely cars to drive.


I've driven a lot of neat cars, but oddly never ridden a Harley-Davidson.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

The cupholders in the Ireland models accommodate a pint glass, which is nice.

I want to say something here, but I really can't. This is too deftly done.

[Gangster Octopus]

A good friend of ours has just passed her driving test; just a few days after her forty-ninth birthday. We're really pleased for her.