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Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

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    Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

    So. PT said he thought there could never be any objection to revealing aspects of ones personal life on here, as long as one oneself felt OK about it. I disagreed, and indeed think one or two posts have been problematic in this respect (though none in any currently active thread). I'm chary about being too specific, though, and PT has got a cob on about this for some reason.

    Take it away.

    #2
    Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

    I think you're closer to being right than Pan Tau.

    I don't like the suicide thoughts thread

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      #3
      Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

      I worry about there being a responsibility side to things after someone on a different board said they were going to take an overdose and had people panicking and calling the police and so on - she posted that then disappeared.

      but the poster on that thread was saying that they'd considered this and were not going to do anything about it. but still.

      maybe people should feel they can always ask for help, at least.

      Comment


        #4
        Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

        I have to admit, I'm not entirely sure which past threads Wyatt is referring to as being problematic but I suppose an example of when there might be a problem with this sort of thing is where the nature of the problem is such that other posters - or perhaps one or two specific posters (owing to the nature of the problem) - may feel obligated to go out of their way to help, requiring perhaps financial, time or emotional commitments that no one should feel pressured into giving, certainly not from a relatively anonymous person on a messageboard.

        For example, imagine a poster started a thread in which he was clearly distraught, and poured his heart out about finding himself in Capetown and being homeless and penniless and was facing spending the next few nights on the streets, begging passers-by for scraps of food (ignore for now how he managed to get onto the internet in this state).

        Pan Tau may well feel that there is quite a bit of pressure on him to offer assistance by way of shelter, food etc - which he may well be happy to offer, of course - but the point is he'd feel compelled to offer, perhaps feel the weight of pressure and expectation form others on the board to offer - and it just wouldn't be right for him to be put in that position.

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          #5
          Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

          (I have no idea if this is the sort of thing Wyatt has in mind.)

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            #6
            Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

            I have seen that exact thing (well not Cape Town) happen before.

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              #7
              Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

              So it's not me blathering on about my kidney stone, then?

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                #8
                Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                Shit, everyone. He knows.

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                  #9
                  Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                  It should always be remembered that although OTF feels like a closed community, it isn't. Anyone, including employers, partners, spouses, children, friends, strangers, etc., etc., can read anything posted on here. I think that fact should always be a consideration when making posts of a highly personal nature.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                    So. PT said he thought there could never be any objection to revealing aspects of ones personal life on here, as long as one oneself felt OK about it.
                    Except I didn't say that. I said, in response to a particular post, that there is no imposition on OTF if somebody is writing about their problems. I think there is a difference between imposing and posting material that may be objectionable.

                    If somebody were to post something as posited in Hofzinser's hypothetical scenario, I'd have the freedom to ignore that thread or choose to do nothing about it. The imposition would be if that poster, or others, were to censure me for doing so.

                    If I responded with material help, and my trust was abused by that poster, the problem would be quite removed from the original post.

                    FF, the concerns of privacy are, of course, totally valid. Again, the post would not impose on us, though we may well counsel the poster that he or she might in their account respect the privacy of others.

                    In my view, a confessional post (not term I exactly like) cannot impose on OTF unless it is objectively disturbing, for example a text in which an anonymous poster tells us about how he habitually rapes his daughter. I'm not certain that we'll have many of these here.

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                      #11
                      Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                      What if someone writes in asking for help with sexual problems? Hypothetically, of course.

                      Does that fall under the "imposition" category, or is it simply "Too Much Information"?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                        Look, that was a PM. That's a whole 'nother thing. And if you're gonna offer to give someone 'a hand if they ever need it', you'd better mean it.

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                          #13
                          Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                          I'd *love* to get OTF's opinions on several issues but I worry about the whole being seen as being needy/whiny thing. and as a result I am glad whenever anyone asks advice about anything because it makes me feel less ridiculous. Oh, God, it's all me me me.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                            I agree with what FF said, but I'm not sure what WE is referring to.

                            I think a forum like OTF is idea for airing of some problems exactly because there is no imposition. People can feel free to respond or give advice if they want to. If they don't want to or can't, then there's no imposition. They just stay silent.

                            In the real world, someone accosted by an aquaintence for advice feels obligated to say something - even if they know it's trite or unhelpful or think the question is innapropriate - lest they leave an awkward silence.

                            Silence in cyberspace isn't usually so awkward, and there isn't that whole weird averting-eye-contact problem.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                              If somebody were to post something as posited in Hofzinser's hypothetical scenario, I'd have the freedom to ignore that thread or choose to do nothing about it. The imposition would be if that poster, or others, were to censure me for doing so.

                              Yes, you would - at least in principle. But you also might feel guilty if you did ignore it. You might feel some sort of pressure or obligation to help. You might feel that you were in some way expected to help. It could certainly put you in a pretty difficult situation.

                              Of course, you personally might feel quite happy about ignoring it - or, on the other hand, you might be very happy to help, and not feel it is an imposition.

                              But the point is, all the feelings in the first post are also quite possible, in principle, and for that reason I'd say a post of the type I described would be pretty out of order - even if it was merely a cathartic spilling of feelings, rather than an explicit cry for help.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                                I'd agree that something like that could be problematic without appropriate caveats. But it is a rather extraordinary example. I don't think we've had anything comparable on OTF before. The closest I can think of is the whole Ha Ha They're Coming To Take Me Away saga; but even there no obligation, explicit or implicit, was placed on individuals to respond with help.

                                WOM, LOL.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                                  " but even there no obligation, explicit or implicit, was placed on individuals to respond with help."

                                  Oh yes there was. Perhaps you didn't see it that way or remember it that way, but there was a strong effort by the individual involved to shame any of us who dare question the validity of his position.

                                  I got called a few nasty things after it was all over because I had the temerity to say, in the face of a lot of people offering sincere heartfelt support and making phone calls on his behalf, that those of us who only knew him on OTF have no way to verify his account of what had transpired and therefore it was possible that we were being asked to lobby for the release of somebody who was a danger to themselves or others.

                                  Since that was the case, after a lot of thought, I decided that it would be irresponsible for me to offer support, since support in this case may have just been a counter-productive "enabling." At first, I just remained silent, but then I said something on the board about it because I felt that this was an idea that deserved consideration from others on the board since they were contemplating the same action and it seemed like people we're getting swept up into a righteous fervor about it all withought thinking through the possible hazards.

                                  That's ancient history and I don't think we should get all into it, but I just couldn't let the claim stand that there was no pressure to respond with help.

                                  But that's a rare case. Other than the odd OTFathon, scarf swap or vinyl procurement request, it is very, very rare for anything on OTF to "touch" the outside world like that.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                                    Fair point, Reed. I don't remember that part, to be honest.

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                                      #19
                                      Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                                      That's ok, I'm probably the only one who does remember it. My role in all of that was very tiny and almost nobody paid the slightest attention to what I said. If there's a movie about that incident, I don't think my part will be cast.

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                                        #20
                                        Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                                        Reed Miller - Self
                                        Thin man in elevator - WOM
                                        etc...

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                                          #21
                                          Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                                          I don't know whether this is an example of what Wyatt means or not.

                                          Seven years ago when Carolyn had her stroke, I was tempted to write about it on OTF, but I didn't. Instead I left a message for general consumption with Femme Folle and disappeared. It wasn't a conscious choice, at the time it just seemed the "right thing to do." Looking back I still believe it was the correct decision. In spite of the trust and respect I had, and still have, for almost everyone on this board, what she and I were going through was far too intimate and profound to discuss here, it would have seemed like a betrayal. Even if she had agreed to it, it would have still felt like that to me. On the other hand I'm quite willing to talk about my depression, struggles with my weight, my low testosterone levels (stop that sniggering, you've all got it coming and it doesn't necessarily mean what you're thinking!) and so on. So what's the difference? I assume it has to do with discussing those I love and care for most dearly in this type of forum. Beyond the occasional passing reference, it just seems a deeply unfaithful thing to do.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                                            I'll admit that I really don't understand your problem here. I'm trying to think of problematic threads and can only come up with one a long time ago whose title ended "ha", but even that, on its own terms wasn't exactly an imposition. It was a cry for help from somebody in an immediate situation where they wanted help.

                                            Now, there may be a case to be made that the situation they found themself in (however much they didn't want it) was exactly what was needed. Indeed someone did make that case and was made to feel very uncomfortable afterwards by the person in question. But it's quite a leap to say that the original thread should never have happened.

                                            Everyone has the right to cry "help!", surely.

                                            Then it's a matter for others to decide whether to help or not. And what actually constitutes "helping".

                                            Generally, short of deliberate malicious falsehood (or maybe even deliberate malicious honesty) people ought to be able to say what the fuck they like. Just as everybody else is equally entitled to respond however they fucking like, too. And each party can then deal with consequences as they see fit.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                                              The only problem I can think of is the aforementioned version of the "hill-walkers with mobile phone" variety

                                              Apparently, mountain rescue teams have more false alarm call-outs now because people phone their relatives and say "Guess where I am calling you. The top of Snowdon" and forget to actually phone them again to tell them they got down safely and are at home. Relatives worry and phone mountain rescue while hill-walkers are in pub out of mobile coverage.

                                              Similarly with very depressed or suicidal posts, if someone posts on here but don't post again to say they have cheered up/gone to see a doctor/found their happy pills then I would say it's a bit irresponsible.

                                              As far as there being responsibility for others, I think that anyone should only offer help if they want to and feel that they can help, not because they feel they should through guilt. Other than that, there is only a resposibilty to treat such serious posts, well, seriously.

                                              A lot of things I don't post on here because they are no-one else's business apart from close friends and family but that is not to say that I wouldn't post them ever as, one day, they may help someone else

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                                                I can certainly think of "confessional" style posts that have no place on here (in my opinion), but I can't really think of any times (aside from once, possibly) where that line has been crossed.

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                                                  #25
                                                  Navel-gazing thread about the confessional mode

                                                  Reed of the Valley People wrote:
                                                  That's ok, I'm probably the only one who does remember it.
                                                  By no means. By no means.

                                                  With hindsight (and bearing no resemblance to my behaviour at the time) I think that episode illustrated precisely the dangers of getting the notion of a public space muddled up with that of a group of ones mates. It was certainly one of the examples I was thinking of.

                                                  Others, a good deal less serious, have tended to be of the too-much-information variety, concerning [highcourtjudge]what I believe is known as "Pulling The Birds", and so forth[/highcourtjudge]. Some of that, at the intimate end, is stuff you don't want to be telling the likes of me. And yeah, I do consider it an imposition. Sorry.

                                                  Of course I Needn't Read Any Of It, but that applies to literally anything anyone might post, and therefore isn't much of a specific defence. This type of discussion is always, in the end, about "Stuff we're glad there's not more of" or "Stuff we wish there was less of."

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