"Northern Britain"

[Soccer Scrimmage]

I was listening to a BBC podcast, and the host referred to his guest as a professor at the University of St. Andrews, "in Northern Britain".

This characterization of Scotland struck me as absolutely bizarre, and almost colonial. Is this a standard term?

[Sean of the Shed]

"Northern Britain"

Though technically correct it is a ridiculous way to describe it. Northern Britain doesn't even have a defined border; it could start just above Birmingham or as far up as the Forth estuary. Scotland, however, has a fixed border (unless you live in Berwick I suppose), and is far more recognisable around the world. Using the term Northern Britain just sounds patronising.

[Duncan Gardner]

"Northern Britain"

There was the North British Hotel beside Edinburgh station for many years, but it's been the Balmoral since the late 1980s. I think the name's now largely archaic, used for the reasons Sean suggests.

There is also a Little Britain street in Dublin (Great Britain street was renamed for Charles Parnell after independence). 'West Briton' was an insult directed at one of our Dublin posters only the other day...

Interesting point about where the North starts in England. Do Tamworth residents think themselves thus, or need you go beyond Derby?

[Guest]

"Northern Britain"

I, Rabotnicki wrote:

Interesting point about where the North starts in England.

Scotch Corner. Everything below: Southerners.

[hobbes]

"Northern Britain"

London Gateway Services. Everything North is Northern Britain.

[Gerontophile]

"Northern Britain"

Ringwood.

Everything else is north.

[Furtho]

"Northern Britain"

On the other hand, Scottish band Teenage Fanclub went out of their way to name an album of theirs Songs From Northern Britain, their motivation for doing so if I remember correctly being to find another means of drawing attention to the fact that they weren't from England.

[Nurse Duckett]

"Northern Britain"

I, Rabotnicki wrote:

There was the North British Hotel beside Edinburgh station for many years, but it's been the Balmoral since the late 1980s. I think the name's now largely archaic, used for the reasons Sean suggests.

Given its location, the hotel was probably named after the North British Railway, a Scottish railway company that was absorbed into the LNER in 1923.

[Spearmint Rhino]

"Northern Britain"

If the podcast was aimed at a world audience, you can understand the term. A lot of Americans genuinely wouldn't be able to point to Scotland on a map. (In my experience, they certainly haven't got a clue where Wales is.)

Mrs Rhino (a Geordie) insists that Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool, Sheffield etc ought to be called the Midlands, and where she comes from is the proper North.

[Sean of the Shed]

"Northern Britain"

I, Rabotnicki wrote:

Interesting point about where the North starts in England. Do Tamworth residents think themselves thus, or need you go beyond Derby?

Most Tammies refer to themselves as midlanders and are quite happy to give both northerners and southerners the pre-fix 'bloody'.
Even more confused seem to be the people of Lincoln, my place of birth and growing up. They seem to prefer northern than southern, but get fed up with being attached to Yorkshire as a result of this. Their easterly location seems to sever their link to the midlands, but eastern tends to refer to East Anglia so they are just stuck in a limbo like state, the orphan county that nobody wants.

[Furtho]

"Northern Britain"

We've done what the southernmost northern town might be before. In my part of the world it's Wellingborough, although Portsmouth was one eye-catching suggestion, as I recall.

[Nishlord]

"Northern Britain"

1:12

[Spearmint Rhino]

"Northern Britain"

The feller playing that skittley game straight afterwards looks like a young Jeff 'Heavenly' Barrett crossed with the former Crystal Palace guy in Abigail's Party.

[George]

"Northern Britain"

On the eastern side of the Pennines the dividing line between the midlands and the north is generally reckoned to be the Derbyshire/South Yorkshire border.

[Alderman Barnes]

"Northern Britain"

Good call Nish. Another one might be where you get mushrooms on bar billiards tables and where you get pegs with a pin through.

[Moonlight Shadow]

"Northern Britain"

I've hung around a fair bit in the Derbyshire part of the Peak District and they are very northern 'round there, a place like Whalley Bridge could easily be in Greater Manchester.

[George]

"Northern Britain"

Yeah, I'd say the county border thing is a bit vague. The top end of Derbyshire, like Chesterfield and the parts going out towards Manchester, definitely have a sense of being more northern(if you can define what that means).

Mansfield in Nottinghamshire is probably a better cut-off point.

[Gangster Octopus]

"Northern Britain"

Cutting Mansfield off? Damn fine idea...

[nefertiti]

"Northern Britain"

North Britain was a term used both before and after the Act of Union in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries.

[Guest]

"Northern Britain"

Spearmint Rhino wrote:

A lot of Americans genuinely wouldn't be able to point to Scotland on a map.

I think ignorance of these sort of matters is pretty global. I saw a television show recently where the contestants were asked to point to countries on a map. We had people who had no idea where to look for Spain or Canada and one person who was looking for Brazil in Africa.

I reckon there are very few people who understand the differences between England, Britain and the United Kingdom. Most people think England and Britain is the same thing – which is good, of course, because it probably means they believe Scotland is a fully fledged independent nation (I've never come across anybody who hasn't actually heard of Scotland although lots of people confuse Scotland and Ireland).

[Guest]

"Northern Britain"

I saw a television show recently where the contestants were asked to point to countries on a map. We had people who had no idea where to look for Spain or Canada and one person who was looking for Brazil in Africa.

One of the top sportswriters at the Irish Times recently penned an article about Muhammad Ali, in which he referred to The Thrilla In Manila as "that unforgettable night in Kinshasa".

[Sam]

"Northern Britain"

Melbourne Arab wrote:

(I've never come across anybody who hasn't actually heard of Scotland although lots of people confuse Scotland and Ireland)

In fairness to them, 'Scotland' does mean 'Land of the Irish', so they're on the right track.

In a way.

[sw2borshch]

"Northern Britain"

And of course we had The North Briton, a radical/satirical publication of the 18th century, associated with John Wilkes.
Another wiki page linked from that one suggests that James VI/I popularised the phrases "North Britain" & "South Britain" on his accession to the English Crown.

And for me the South starts at Stokesley - I would grudgingly admit that Yorkshire is in the North, but it stills feels like Another Place. A very rude man from Sheffield called me a Geordie in a pub toilet in York the other week. Tch.

[Cavalry Trouser Tips]

"Northern Britain"

Watford Gap services has always been the North/South divide.

[sw2borshch]

"Northern Britain"

Typical Westerner logic.