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WHAT THE JEFF JUST HAPPENED: CRO-FRA Final

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    Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
    That's spot on. The 2010 final was amusing in its own dark way. 8 yellow cards, and a red for Holland. 5 yellows for spain. In looking up those statistics I notice that Iniesta was booked in the 118th minute, and xavi was booked in the 120+1. I wonder what they did?
    Iniesta was booked for ripping off his shirt to reveal "Dani Jarque siempre con nosotros"

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      Well, one way to carry water is in a cup.

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        Originally posted by Janik View Post
        And scored four goals twice in the knock-outs. AP is talking from pure jaundice here, France are and will be remember as one of the better World Champions. Not Brazil '70 for sure, but above Brazil '02 for example.
        Absolutely. I wasn't especially impressed with them in the groups, but France grew stronger as the tournament progressed. I don't really buy into the 'anti-football'-thing applied to the semi-final victory: it wasn't the most enthralling game (ie, in a competition full of them), but it was managed against Belgium, the - genuinely - best team at the World Cup.

        Originally posted by SouthdownRebel View Post
        Sadly, we'll never know
        Well, we knew for half an hour or so.

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          Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post
          What we have seen today is the equivalent of Bert van Marwijk's Netherlands beating Spain in the 2010 final. People would have said, "well, the Netherlands are worthy winners. They didn't need extra time. They scored more goals than Spain." Mark van Bommel and Nigel de Jong would have held the World Cup aloft. It would have been shite.

          There's more to football than winning matches and scoring goals. This website is called onetouchfootball after all, and not freekickowngoal.

          Croatia, the country of four million, were playing all the football all the tournament. Closing down high up the pitch, playing the ball out of defence with nutmegs that other team mates would help out with. It was a fantastic team effort. It was fucking beautiful. So what if they required extra time. They were always trying to play football the right way, with the players they had at their disposal. They don't have a squad of superstars. The teams they played against in extra time were all looking for penalties. Croatia always kept going, playing football like it is supposed to be played.

          France has a better squad than Croatia. They have serious talent in all positions. But this France were afraid to play football. They won because Deschamps devised the least risky way to squeeze a trophy out of a talented squad. A tax accountant's world cup victory. The water carrier's victory. If France had tried to do what Croatia did all tournament, but with the players France have at their disposal, then maybe they could have been remembered as Brazil 70. But they won't be. They'll be remembered as the team that wanted to win more then they wanted to play football. 39% possession against Croatia in the final and 40% against Belgium in the semi.

          Maybe the beautiful game sometimes requires ugly winners to remind us how it should be played. Nothing is more ugly than seeing a squad of very talented footballers being told to play within themselves. Croatia are the opposite of that. A group of decent journeyman players led to football nirvana by a couple of top players who decided to play the game as it should be played

          Yeah don't you hate it when someone tries to squeeze all the joy out of a game

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            NARRATOR VOICE: It wasn't the equivalent of Bert van Marwijk's Netherlands beating Spain

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              Perhaps this is not the correct thread for me to display my ignorance about the handball laws with particular respect to whether an action is 'deliberate', but... look, if I'm a defender and I run into my own penalty area with my outstretched arms wheeling round like a windmill but with my eyes closed, and the ball hits my hand... well, it's a clear handball, but there's no way it can be called 'deliberate' because I had no idea where the ball was. So why is the over-riding criteria for a handball foul that it has to be 'deliberate'?

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                Your windmill action would be covered by the "unnatural position" clause.

                I'm still more pissed off about the ref giving a freekick for Griezmann's dive that led to the first goal.Of the two big decisions -- both incorrect, in my view -- that was the more scandalous.

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                  Croatia were not great around the box. Final ball was often poor. Then they conceded numerous goals from set-pieces. They conceded the first goal in all four KO games. Eventually they would concede too many.

                  But they had the best midfield in the tournament, the strikers kept going despite often failing, and the keeper was outstanding until he ran out of steam in that second half.

                  Croatia could only win the final if France fucked up as per 2016. It looked like that might happen for 30 minutes but not thereafter.

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                    I agree that Croatia were unlucky on those decisions but their defending meant they were always vulnerable to conceding free kicks and penalties.

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                      Originally posted by G-Man View Post
                      Your windmill action would be covered by the "unnatural position" clause
                      But it wouldn't be 'deliberate', and that's the over-riding factor. "Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm". If it's not deliberate then none of the other clauses apply - the various commentary teams last night were at pains to point this out.

                      I'm not mentioning this solely with regard to last night's decision, BTW.

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                        Originally posted by Defensive minded
                        I've been told that a substantial portion of the Croatian fans have been singing songs celebrating the slaughter of Serbs at and after games at the World Cup. I would like to ask Pietro Paolo Virdis or anyone else who understands the language whether this is true.
                        I think it was discussed earlier, somewhere else. I forget the outcome, but apparently it's all a big misunderstanding and similar to singing a song that isn't about slaughtering Serbs as sung by other nations. I think.

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                          Originally posted by Defensive minded
                          The rules used to state that a foul has to be deliberate, but that was completely ignored, as I can't remember a single case where a foul was not given on the grounds of "not deliberate". I think they should omit "deliberate" from the handball rule as well.

                          This one was ruled “not deliberate”, no?

                          Last edited by Ray de Galles; 16-07-2018, 11:36.

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                            Ah, I see, clearly didn’t follow correctly.

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                              I like to think that the increasing acceptance of VAR will lead to further clarification of the Laws along the lines DM describes.

                              They were written for a much different game at a much different time, and the fact that hundreds of millions of people now see referees reviewing their initial decision process in real time has made even more manifest just how much greater precision is necessary. Had there been official guidance along the lines of "a defender's arm need not be completely at his side or behind his back in order to be in a "natural position"" or "the official must take into account the speed of the ball and distance traveled before it hits the defender's arm/hand and the defender's ability to have avoided contact", Pitana would likely have reached the opposite conclusion.

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                                Has anyone done one of those “World Cup as league table” things where you award a team three points for a win and one for a draw throughout the tournament (penalty wins counting as a draw) and then rank them on a points per game basis (with goal difference/goals scored used if points are equal)?

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                                  To be fair to the referee, similar incidents have been consistently been given as penalties in this tournament. Therefore, if fingers are going to be pointed, then it is with the head of refereeing for this tournament and the international refereeing board.
                                  Also, the participants would have got quite detailed briefing before the tournament about what does and doesn't constitute and handball so should have come prepared.
                                  It would appear that only England paid attention to the rule briefings hence why they had so many infringements and penalties given in their favour.

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                                    Very much so.

                                    Which is why I was quite sure Pitana was going to give a penalty as soon as he went to the screen.

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                                      Originally posted by Mumpo View Post
                                      Perhaps this is not the correct thread for me to display my ignorance about the handball laws with particular respect to whether an action is 'deliberate', but... look, if I'm a defender and I run into my own penalty area with my outstretched arms wheeling round like a windmill but with my eyes closed, and the ball hits my hand... well, it's a clear handball, but there's no way it can be called 'deliberate' because I had no idea where the ball was. So why is the over-riding criteria for a handball foul that it has to be 'deliberate'?
                                      Basically the instruction seems to be, don't jump with your arm up. You've "accidentally" made yourself bigger, and if the ball hits your hand, they're going to assume that you're in control of your own movements. If your arm is hanging down, then you're grand. Last night perisic jumped with his arm up and brought it down very quickly and then into his side. If he'd jumped with his arm down, the ball would probably have hit him on the hand, but in that instance, it would be ball to hand.

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                                        I almost forgot that Deschamps played for Juventus in the mid-1990s.

                                        I wonder if that would explain his apparent rapid ageing.

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                                          Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                                          Basically the instruction seems to be, don't jump with your arm up. You've "accidentally" made yourself bigger, and if the ball hits your hand, they're going to assume that you're in control of your own movements. If your arm is hanging down, then you're grand. Last night perisic jumped with his arm up and brought it down very quickly and then into his side. If he'd jumped with his arm down, the ball would probably have hit him on the hand, but in that instance, it would be ball to hand.
                                          You're not allowed to raise your arm toward a cross or shot. You're not allowed to put your hand on a player running with you. And we all know now you're not allowed to grab anyone's shirt. As outfield players' hands are now effectively hand grenades on the pitch if they do anything with them, I think they should all play in straightjackets. Throw-ins would admittedly need looking at.

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                                            Straight jackets can be escaped. Surgery is the only option.

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                                              There will be a lot more goals from set-pieces: attackers will jump using their arms whereas defenders have to pogo. Not a level playing field, and not good for football.

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                                                I don't get the debate here, the defender practically swatted down a ball that wasn't particularly flying very fast. No contest.

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                                                  A ball he might not have been able to see at close distance was deflected on to his hand as he was coming down from a jump. Plus his leg position indicates that he wanted to kick the ball out. How could the referee decide with certainty that this was deliberate handball?

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                                                    The pussy riot pitch invaders got 15 days. And part of that was for impersonating pilice officers. I'm pretty sure anyone pulling off a stunt like that here would get similar, possibly more? So they've ironically provided a chance for Russia to show how tolerant and lenient they are.

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