Ranking the World Cups you haven't seen

[Satchmo Distel]

There have been kid distractors for a long time, going back to space invaders. And the corporate structure fell into place by the mid-80s.

[N est à?]

Was there really no instagram, snapchat, netflix in 2008? If not there were certainly he immediate precursors of these things. Social media was already starting to dominate a lot of kids lives in 2008.

[Patrick Thistle]

All of culture has sort of flattened out since the corporate mid-80s. In the preceding decades, and even years, you had various fashions and youth movements come and go, with life spans of five years or less. The cultural epochs didn't quite blend into one another as they have since the neo-liberals won. So 1966 looked much different from 1976, in ways that 2018 looks almost indistinguishable from 2008.

Really? If anything I think 'yoof culture' changes too fast to keep up. Year on year things are very different.

If you took a 17 year old now and Tardised them back to 2008 they'd melt down. No instagram. No snapchat. No Netflix. Barack Obama being propelled into office on a wave of hope. No hint of Brexit. A Labour government.

[Flynnie]

There was, but they got rid of it in 1956 so they could host the World Cup with all their stars. Just Nordahl was crocked by then (he only played four times in 1957-1958 for Roma, scoring twice).

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

There was something. I'll have to look it up. But there was something about pro's not eligible in Sweden.

[Flynnie]

Nordahl didn't play because the Swedish FA didn't allow any professionals in the squad. But you're not wrong there, he was on his down rather than in the midst of his peak.

Hamrin and Liedholm disprove that.

Edit: and Skoglund. Bengt Gustavsson was at Atalanta. They were allowing pros by then.

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

Nordahl didn't play because the Swedish FA didn't allow any professionals in the squad. But you're not wrong there, he was on his down rather than in the midst of his peak.

[Flynnie]

Nordahl didn't play in 1958 because he was old, declining and about to retire. Hamrin was at Padova at the time, Liedholm was still at Milan and scored the first goal of the final. Gren had returned to Sweden but captained the team at age 37.

The real chances for Sweden would have been 1950 - they finished third with none of the Gre-No-Li trio, but a young Nacka Skoglund - and 1954.

[Jah Womble]

Or, with England having to attack, Beckenbauer would have scored another fantastic counter-attack goal to make it 2-0. And think of the consequences 52 years later: no talk of "52 Years of Hurt" and more of "ooh, do you think it might happen this time?".

England were indeed the better team on the day, and they might have won without Dienst's haplessness. You have your World Cup title, and I have my "Ve vuz robbed" game. Football fans need to have a bit of both.

In your position of having won the thing four times anyway, I'd be more inclined to let 1966 go and instead congratulate yourselves on the 1970 victory over an even better England team - and from two goals adrift. (Which, until Belgium's win over Japan on Monday, hadn't been achieved in the knockouts since.)

[G-Man]

Agreed. 1966 seemed further away in 1976 than Italia 90 does now. I suppose because World Cups didn't become flattened out and standardized until 1998 or so.

All of culture has sort of flattened out since the corporate mid-80s. In the preceding decades, and even years, you had various fashions and youth movements come and go, with life spans of five years or less. The cultural epochs didn't quite blend into one another as they have since the neo-liberals won. So 1966 looked much different from 1976, in ways that 2018 looks almost indistinguishable from 2008.

[G-Man]

Or, with England having to attack, Beckenbauer would have scored another fantastic counter-attack goal to make it 2-0. And think of the consequences 52 years later: no talk of "52 Years of Hurt" and more of "ooh, do you think it might happen this time?".

England were indeed the better team on the day, and they might have won without Dienst's haplessness. You have your World Cup title, and I have my "Ve vuz robbed" game. Football fans need to have a bit of both.

[Jah Womble]

Trying to re-write history is pretty pointless, but seems to be the game. Had England's 1966 equaliser wrongly been disallowed, then the entire pattern of the match would've changed right there: the 'push' would've been harder from the hosts, who, feeling hard done-by, would have scored anyway - probably more than once. On balance, they were the better side on the afternoon, so let's just say that it would have finished 3-1 in ninety minutes. Sorted.

[Satchmo Distel]

Agreed. 1966 seemed further away in 1976 than Italia 90 does now. I suppose because World Cups didn't become flattened out and standardized until 1998 or so.

[Patrick Thistle]

Sometimes I weird myself out thinking about events that happened before I was born and how other people actually experienced those events the way I lived through subsequent things. The 1966 World Cup, for example. That happened only 10 years before I was born and yet growing up it was as lost to history as the second world war, or the suffragettes, or Queen Victoria, or Waterloo, or Magellan.

I can't really imagine what the World Cups in the 30s were like. I can't really imagine that world at all. Before television. A horse-drawn world. Newspapers. The British Empire. Everyone wearing hats.

[3 Colours Red]

Facetiousness, thy name is 3CR.

I'm aware of the Nordahl situation. The general concensus (in Wales anyway) is that we gave Brazil their most challenging game of the tournament without our best player.

But even if they'd beaten us 9-0 with our tails between our legs, I'd still have said it was the best World Cup ever simply because we were actually there for once.

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

1958 - We could have won it if John Charles was available against Brazil.

Could have, might have, should have.
Sweden played the final against Brazil and it was a Swedish side without its best, You see, the Swedish FA didn't allow professionals in their squad and a man by the name of Gunnar Nordahl (google it) wasn't allowed to play because he had moved to Milan.
Just google him and you'll see.

[G-Man]

First German goal was offside IIRC.

Er, the English defender is heading the ball to Haller. No German player is offside as Haller strikes the ball.

You might be thinking of the 2-2, but Haller is played on-side by Jackie Charlton and Wilson (Weber comes from behind Wilson to score, so he can't have been offside). Haller stands on the 6-yard line, Wilson and Charlton are inside the six-yard box when the ball is played to Haller.

England's equaliser shouldn't have stood. Referee Dienst was still reprimanding Overath for his foul when Moore (?) plays the freekick into the box for Hurst to put away. You can't allow a freekick to e taken when you are still disciplining a player.

The other two goals are obvious errors. The third goal obviously (though a decision either way would have been guesswork), and when Hurst scored the fourth, there were people on the pitch.

[Wouter D]

1950 - such drama in the last game!
1930 - every game in the knockout phase featured six or more goals. I'll have that
1986 - since when do Belgium know how to play football?
1958 - didn't take place
1970 - some good knockout games, I guess
1934 - meh
1938 - travel all the way from Indonesia to Italy, only to get hammered by the Hungarians in your country's only World Cup game ever and be sent home. Tragic.
1974 - calling yourselves World Champions after losing to the DDR? GTFO!
1978 - if only that post were round
1990 - most memorable bit was the llama affair, which isn't much
1962 - last one without any representation from Asia, Africa, or Oceania
1966 - ugh
1982 - second stupidest format ever, enabling the disgrace of Gijón
1954 - stupidest format ever

[Satchmo Distel]

First German goal was offside IIRC.

When I watched the full tape of that game in the early 90s, it felt to me that England were largely in control and Germany were hanging on. I think England had more luck in earlier games, like Stiles getting away with murder and how the Argentina game was officiated. But I also think they were the best side that year on balance.

[Jah Womble]

One illegal goal is fair enough. Two is unfortunate. Three is just careless.

...and inaccurate.

But I feel like I've heard - and debated - this a thousand times now.

[Satchmo Distel]

I wonder if some people have false memories of seeing 1970 in colour as small kids whereas, like Jah and I, our colour Tv's did not appear until early 70s FA Cup finals? In Argentina, football was in black and white as late as the 1977 friendly v England, which might be the last England game screened in that format.

[G-Man]

One illegal goal is fair enough. Two is unfortunate. Three is just careless.

[Jah Womble]

1954
1966
1958
1930
1934
1950
1962
1938

1970: They say it was so great. And in colour.

The small amount I saw in black and white was decent enough. We rented (as people did in those days) our first colour TV a year later just in time to see the Arse win their first double. Can't have everything, I s'pose...

1966: Germany beating England 2-1 in the final. Moral victory!

I congratulate you on your 'moral victory'. Now perhaps you'll congratulate us on our 'real' one.

[G-Man]

1954: Never mind the sensational end to the thing. Semi-final: Germany vs Austria 6-1. Hungary vs Uruguay 4-2 (with Hungary giving up a 2-0 lead!). Q/F; Austria vs Switzerland 7-5 (after Switzerland were 3-0 up). Hungary vs Brazil 4-2 (with Hungary nearly giving up a 2-0 lead!). Group stages: Hungary vs Germany 8-3. England v s Belgium 4-4.

1970: They say it was so great. And in colour.

1958: The day it was so great. But in black & white. Plus Sweden kicked Fritz Walter off the pitch. Fuck them.

1966: Germany beating England 2-1 in the final. Moral victory!

1950: Anti-Brazil Schadenfreude before that was a thing.

1938: Stupid knock-out system, but Brazil vs Poland 6-5. Sounds good.

1930: A one-armed player wins the World Cup. Good idea.

1962: Anti-football, apparently.

1934: as 3 Colours says above...

[3 Colours Red]

1958 - We could have won it if John Charles was available against Brazil.

1982 - Year I was born, therefore automatically incredible. Only misses out on top spot due to lack of Welsh involvement.

1970 - Carlos Alberto. 4-1. Enough said.

1986 - That Denmark kit. Pure sex.

1930 - Started it all. Deserves a decent ranking.

1962 - Because "this is want nobody wants to see on a football pitch" is the biggest falsehood any commentator can come up with.

1974 - Totaalvoetbal.

1954 - TOR!!!

1950 - Joe Gaetjens giving us all a laugh.

1938 - Meh.

1978 - Murderous junta. Fixed result.

1934 - Fascism. Fixed result.

1966 - For only enhancing England's germanophobia.