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Should Be The Final? QF2 - BRZ-BEL

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    I genuinely don't recognise this Brazil that has so offended so many. I've never visited a more racially integrated country than Brazil*. Until the rise of the evangelical churches the national religion was essentially Catholicism mixed with African paganism. Brazil has had a racially mixed football team way before any European team did.

    (*It's by no means perfect and the upper echelons of society tend to be white but there is nowhere in Europe or North America in which at the level of the working classes and lower middle classes there is genuine colour blindness.)

    Anyway, you can all hold your deep seated prejudice against the place and its footballers, and enjoy your days of gloating.

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      Originally posted by bix80
      True. This is probably due to economics / purchasing power. Which does not at all make it right, of course. The day all Brazilians are fairly represented in all possible areas can't come soon enough.
      I can't think of any other possible reason tbh. This is also not just a brazilian thing either. It's just more obvious because of the nature of the team, and the country at large.

      I have a theory that the more economically fucked up the country, the greater the gap in attractiveness between the male and female fans.

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        I think we need the Crespometer to accurately judge Neymar's contribution to the Brazilian team.

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          Originally posted by bix80
          Exactly. The post-Zlatan era is still very short relative to the Zlatan era, so any comparison is based on limited evidence. Also - They improved after they lost Zlatan. Did they improve BECAUSE they lost Zlatan? We'll never know.

          In the case of Neymar, I find the evidence to be stacked very differently. He has scored a disproportionate number of goals relative to his matches, including 6 in World Cups so far. Brazil would be better off without him how?
          Hmm, Brazil have more than enough really good players to construct a balanced, and dangerous team, without being completely dominated by one very talented player who seems to have some sort of personality disorder. The same is true to a lesser extent about sweden. I would compare the current Brazilian Neymar set up with the considerably more diffuse and better balanced teams that actually won stuff. It was hard to tell who was the most important player for brazil in 2002, even though Ronaldo scored all those goals. Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, and the two full backs were also amazing, and they were the best organized team in the tournament by miles.

          Every team is always going to have one player who's probably better than the others, but it's better to have a star like Henrik Larsson who works really hard to make his teammates look better (or a young messi) rather than a maniac who tries to make it all about him, and that's going to be particularly true for a country like sweden, whose game is traditionally about organization and co-ordination.

          Comment


            Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post
            I think we need the Crespometer to accurately judge Neymar's contribution to the Brazilian team.
            It's not designed for international football.

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              Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
              It's not designed for international football.
              You're right.

              It's the Robbiemeter we need.

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                Comment


                  Originally posted by Bruno
                  If you're a fan (or "fan") of a major successful sporting club, you're a glory-hunting star fucker. What difference should it make that you happen to live in the same town as them? Which they often don't anyway. Unless you helped build or support the team with more than ticket and merch sales, you're no different from the other "fans" the world over.
                  It's a bit weird that the fans across Asia and North America or wherever all choose Barca or Real over Espanyol or Vallecano, for instance. I'm happy to be labelled a glory-hunting star-fucker as well if you like, but let's not pretend the global fanbase is supporting the team for reasons other than the fact they're big, famous, successful and on telly a lot. The clubs even admit this themselves.

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                    I'm not looking down on them.

                    But struggle for victory..?

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                      Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                      I genuinely don't recognise this Brazil that has so offended so many. I've never visited a more racially integrated country than Brazil*. Until the rise of the evangelical churches the national religion was essentially Catholicism mixed with African paganism. Brazil has had a racially mixed football team way before any European team did.

                      (*It's by no means perfect and the upper echelons of society tend to be white but there is nowhere in Europe or North America in which at the level of the working classes and lower middle classes there is genuine colour blindness.)

                      Anyway, you can all hold your deep seated prejudice against the place and its footballers, and enjoy your days of gloating.
                      I agree with all this but David Goldblatt's book on Brazil showed a tendency among football administrators to prefer Mulattos to blacks and in the 30s this was backed up with some eugenicist racial garbage.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by EIM View Post
                        But struggle for victory..?
                        It's interesting how people in Africa and America follow their bunch of sides in the World Cup. If USA are out, Americans are rooting for Costa Rica or whatever's left. If Nigeria are out, Nigerians root for Senegal. You don't really see that in Europe, more the other way around. If England are out, you don't see the English root for France or Serbia against Morocco, the same way you see Africans hope the African side wins whichever it is.

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                          Would Brazil fans root for Uruguay against Portugal?

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                            Americans don't root for Costa Rica, it would be more like Italy, Ireland or England depending on the heritage.

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                              I can't speak for anyone else but I tend to go for the underdog. I was definitely rooting for Iran against Spain.

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                                Originally posted by linus View Post
                                Americans don't root for Costa Rica, it would be more like Italy, Ireland or England depending on the heritage.
                                Like you say, depends on heritage. There are 50m Hispanic Americans who likely would lead towards Costa Rica.

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                                  I rooted for Brazil in the first 15 minutes but after that it was impossible to like them, whereas Lukaku and De Bruyne were sensational.

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                                    Originally posted by Bruno
                                    Struggle for victory, I just meant playing the game. "Star fucker" sounds like looking down to me.
                                    You don't want to fuck a star?

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                                      Anybody who supports Brazil without having any personal connection to the place also goes to casinos and cheers on the house.

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                                        Originally posted by Bruno
                                        I'm American and I rooted for Costa Rica, except when they played Italy. But even then I sort of rooted for them. The underdog thing.
                                        Hard times for the tifosi.

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                                          Originally posted by dogbeak View Post
                                          Anybody who supports Brazil without having any personal connection to the place also goes to casinos and cheers on the house.
                                          An exception if they have them in the office sweep, surely.

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                                            Haha, depending on the size of the pot I would consider it a personal connection.

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