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    #76
    Hoeness can fuck off and so can G-Man



    https://twitter.com/OptaJoe/status/1021320613217144832

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      #77
      https://twitter.com/JonBloggs66/status/1021330356824432640

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        #78
        Özil probably saw how the Swedish squad tackled Jimmy Durmaz being treated like shit and thought, "fuck my team".

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          #79
          Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
          Hoeness can fuck off and so can G-Man
          Have I been rude to you, Nef? If not, then you are being out of order.

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            #80
            Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
            I know every team that does significantly worse than expectations will end up having some kind of public inquest into what went wrong, but Germany seem to spectacularly be making an utter pigs ear out of this. On the verge of destroying this multicultural diverse Germany team which had been such a huge positive in all ways. Will Gundogan also quit? Will some of the other minority players reconsider their position (Boateng, for example)?
            It's especially surprising given the credit they're always given for their response to the group stage exit in Euro 2000, especially this aspect which now looks horribly ironic ;

            "Then there are two more, sometimes overlooked aspects of the German football revolution that make it hard to copy: a social and a cultural sea-change.

            The social change was obvious for anyone to see as early as 2009. That was when Germany won the U21 European Championship against England. The most interesting thing about that German squad was its extremely cosmopolitan background: Russian (Andreas Beck), Polish (Sebastian Boenisch), Ghanaian (Jerome Boateng), Nigerian (Dennis Aogo, Chinedu Ede), American (Fabian Johnson), Spanish (Gonzalo Castro), Tunisian (Sami Khedira, Änis Ben-Hatira), Iranian (Ashkan Dejagah) and Turkish (Mesut Özil).

            It was final confirmation that Germany had become an immigrant country, like any other modern Western nation. It happened late, for obvious reasons: Germany lost all its colonies during the first half of the 20th century and wasn't exactly the most attractive country in the years following the Second World War. But it had to happen. The first first few generations of Turkish immigrants, for instance, would have never dreamed of playing for Germany, but this has changed.

            Now it's a perfectly acceptable choice for Germans of Turkish extraction to play for the country in which they were born, rather than for the country in which their grandparents had been born. Luckily for German football, this happened while the domestic game was restructured. A net that was cast considerably wider than before now hit a pond that held a considerably larger number of fish, so to speak."

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              #81
              Originally posted by G-Man View Post
              Have I been rude to you, Nef? If not, then you are being out of order.
              You're right that was unnecessarily offensive. let me say instead that i vehemently disgree with you, both about whether Özil deserved to be selected and your distinction between those with "Germanic roots" and those without.

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                #82
                And, for what it's worth, Podolski (who originally wanted to play for Poland)also used the "two hearts" metaphor
                (auf Deutsch)

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                  #83
                  Have we gone from Multikulti (Mannschaft 2014) to Multikunti in Germany in just a few years?

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                    #84
                    OZil's agent strikes back;

                    He claims that Mesut has been a 'ghost' for years, but what 'ghost' wins all these awards and has this much success? Mesut created more chances in the 2018 World Cup per 90 minutes than any other player, but, of course, he singles him out for criticism. As the president of Bayern Munich is it not best to focus on the performance of his own players seeing as eight of the Germany team play for the club.

                    who is he to speak about Mesut in this way? These lies are cheap, stereotypical and baseless comments - made without any foundations - that allow hurtful news to spread.

                    "Mr Hoeness, we will not waste any more time or energy talking about a subject clearly you know nothing about. Not only are you a disgrace to yourself, but also and more importantly a shame to Bayern Munich and the people of Germany."



                    "Hoeness has very conveniently attempted to direct the conversation to football," Erkut added. "You will have noticed that Mesut’s statement did not place great focus on football and anyway he accepts football-related criticism. The real issue is that which was previously mentioned – the resurgence of the racism and indiscriminate scapegoating he has been subjected to.

                    "He has shown the courage and bravery to speak up for all of those who are unfairly treated in Germany. Immigrants, Muslims and more. These are people he does not represent. Hoeness is clearly one of those people who is not able to face the issues that are in front of him, and is the one hiding behind false stats.
                    Interesting to see who'se supported Özil on twitter

                    https://twitter.com/ToniRuediger/status/1021352986700853249

                    https://twitter.com/dw_sports/status/1021322461219033088

                    https://twitter.com/rioferdy5/status/1021317751376408576

                    and Corbyn supporter Hector Bellerin.

                    https://twitter.com/HectorBellerin/status/1021305583763369984
                    Last edited by Nefertiti2; 23-07-2018, 19:24.

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                      #85
                      Good piece from Richard Williams

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                        #86
                        https://footballcollective.org.uk/20...rt-of-erdogan/

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                          #87
                          Originally posted by Defensive minded
                          Why would you call Boateng a minority player? Because his father's black? Boateng is hugely popular in Germany. I don't think he would be happy to see himself put in that bracket due to his skin colour.
                          I suspect that question is aimed at me and not at G Man. It was lazy short hand for "player from an ethnic minority background"

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                            #88
                            Mueller played far worse than Ozil in the tournament but he seems to have been given far less criticism in Germany, unless it's just been reported less in English media. Similarly, if Podolski had a bad run of form, it would not be discussed in connection with his Polish birth and it was never held against him (AFAIK) that he had originally wanted to play for Poland.
                            Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 23-07-2018, 21:16.

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                              #89
                              Originally posted by Defensive minded
                              That's actually a pretty poor piece coming from someone who does not seen to know much about Germany. Sentences like "To Germany’s Islamophobes and extreme right, Turkish immigrants such as the Özils and the Gündoğans are guest workers who never did the decent thing and went back." are meaningless and just make it seem as if these are growing sentiments, when actually the opposite is the case.
                              WHat the CSU sharp move to the right , the AfD even the Left attempt to redefine politics didn't happen? OK

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                                #90
                                Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
                                You're right that was unnecessarily offensive. let me say instead that i vehemently disgree with you, both about whether Özil deserved to be selected and your distinction between those with "Germanic roots" and those without.
                                It's fair to disagree over the sporting merits of Ozil's selection. I'd probably have wondered about his non-selection for the squad. But the distinction of Ozil has a German-Turkish person is very much his own. It's who he is, much as I am a South African-German. There is nothing wrong with it, as I pointed out. And, as I have also pointed out, it does not give anyone licence to question his commitment to Germany, or to challenge his right to claim his Germaness. But Ozil asked why Klose and Podolski don't get the shit he is getting. And the answer is that their dual heritage is not something they stress much. If they did, then it would be as fair comparison.

                                My reference to Klose and Podolski having Germanic roots is a reference that is specific to the process of assimilation those two men and their families, and has nothing to do with Ozil.

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                                  #91
                                  Originally posted by Defensive minded
                                  I don't think that plays a major role. Podolski is simply an easy-going type of person who always has a smile on his face, whereas Özil comes across as someone who is arrogant and doesn't give a fuck.
                                  Yes, the reaction to Ozil has a lot to do with his public image (though I don't think he's arrogant and he clearly does give many fucks). Ozil was right to mention that racism played a role in the public backlash against him, and that there is a problem when he is made to feel not quite German -- but bringing players with tangential Polish roots into it was not well considered.

                                  The point of reference might have been to look at the treatment of other high-profile players with migrant background. But even there, players like Boateng, Khedira and Rüdiger have one German-heritage parent. And they are being othered anyway, positively and negatively. Ozil and Gündogan have parents who are both from migrant background. That clearly is still significant in German society, with its historical primacy on bloodlines*. The treatment of Ozil should prompt a thorough examination of that; something which Ozil's "What about Miro and Lukas" question did not invite.



                                  * It was easier for my son, born on a different continent with one German parent, to obtain German citizenship than it was for Turkish migrants who had lived in Germany for decades.

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                                    #92
                                    Originally posted by Defensive minded
                                    I think you're conflating politics with general opinion of the public.

                                    By the way, CSU/CDU have actually moved to the left, which is partly the reason for the existence of AfD.
                                    "Bavaria’s ruling party, the Christian Social Union, is wooing AfD sympathizers with dog-whistle politics."

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                                      #93
                                      Originally posted by Pérou Flaquettes View Post
                                      Have we gone from Multikulti (Mannschaft 2014) to Multikunti in Germany in just a few years?
                                      All we need now is Angela Merkel planning an emergency visit to the Irish border.

                                      Mutti, Kulshi

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                                        #94
                                        Not sure why anyone would care what Uli Hoeness, who is the Jerry Jones of Germany apparently, thinks about any of this.

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                                          #95
                                          Jerry Jones has never gone to jail for tax fraud and Hoeness’ teams win things.

                                          While your point is very valid, George Steinbrenner is a better parallel.

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                                            #96
                                            Yes. For some reason, I felt like I needed a living person.

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                                              #97
                                              I don't think it's Kroos's place to tell Ozil that Ozil hasn't felt racially abused

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                                                #98
                                                Germany slump to FIFA rank #15 (#10 in Europe) below Sweden, Chile, Denmark and Switzerland

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