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Vot vent vrong?

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    Vot vent vrong?

    Well, Leroy San dodged a fucking hell of a bullet there. Of the German players, only a few emerged with their dignity intact. Kimmich. Hector. Sle. Werner. Brandt. For one game Kroos and Reus.

    From the kick-off against Mexico, Germany's body language signalled failure. A flukey win against Sweden was a false dawn. The negative body language was back against South Korea. If body language was a colour, Germany's would be a darkish grey.

    Much has been said about complacency, arrogance and lack of hunger. All these were factors. There was a sense, treacherously "confirmed" against Sweden, that everything's going to be OK. That quality will win through; that a Mercedes doesn't break down on the highway.

    But two factors weigh greater than that, in my view.

    Firstly, the pressure. The language from Lw and the players was about the "inhumane pressure" of being "the hunted". The idea surely was to guard against complacency -- unsuccessfully, as we have seen. But that language had a debilitating effect on the team. The team didn't respond to the pressure by taking the fight to it; they let the pressure inhibit them. It engulfed the team in a cloud of fear. And, a few minutes against Sweden excepted, it robbed them of their self-belief.

    Secondly, two squads and no structure. The Confed Cup experiment, when Germany sent a b-team which exceeded all expectations, paradoxically backfired. Lw became indecisive about his first team. Where in the past his experimentations worked because they were tweaks to a framework, there now was no framework. Then Khedira and Ozil played, then they were dropped for playing like stale bread, then they returned to play like stale bread.

    In absence of a framework, Lw became predictable. During today's game, my brother and I Whatsapped. A few minutes into the second half he predicted that on the hour Khedira and Goretzka would be substituted on the hour, and Gomez would come on. So it turned out to be, a few minutes early. Whereupon I predicted that in the 79th minute Brandt would replace Hector. I was out by two minutes, but saw it coming nearly 20 minutes in advance. I have no visionary skills; it was predictable.

    So now Germany have suffered the embarrassment of having done worse than England in a World Cup for the first time in 52 years, and only the second time ever. Can they fix it?

    I expect several of the old guard to retire. Ozil, Khedira and Gomez; maybe Neuer and perhaps Hummels. Mller should not be an automatic choice. That will be a good thing. All of them can be replaced. Lw should stay. This failure should be treated as a blip. He can fix it. And who else is there? Klopp is a club manager. Nagelsmann is young and inexperienced (and bespoke to Franchise Leipzig). Tedesdco has just one good season under his belt. Hecking is average...

    But the rebuilding, it should be unnecessary to state, is overdue.

    #2
    Mannschafted
    Schalke Scheisse
    Muller Lightweight
    Loew Achtung
    Fussball Goering Heim

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      #3
      Strong on the whistle analysis from G-Man there. His dad would be proud.

      Lw got a new four year contract before the tournament. This generation may well have gotten tired of him, but he deserves a chance for a second reboot.

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        #4
        Was going to suggest that Otto Rehagel could do it, but he'll be 83 (!) at the next world cup.

        Where is time going?

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          #5
          Originally posted by G-Man View Post
          Then Khedira and Ozil played, then they were dropped for playing like stale bread, then they returned to play like stale bread.
          So why did they return at all?

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            #6
            They should have played with the team that won Confederations Cup.

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              #7
              I think it it's nothing more complicated than the current crop of players not quite being good enough. That's nothing to be ashamed of, it happens to everyone, but it's a shock to Germany because in the past, even when the players haven't been up to scratch, they've got through by good organisation, a winning mentality and pure dumb luck. The post-match mood in the studio is apocalyptic, but that's only because they're not used to losing. Germany is a big country with lots of footballers and plenty of resources. They'll come back stronger.

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                #8
                As noted on the match thread, the problem is not unique to Germany but all reigning champions. Nobody has retained the trophy since 1962. Only two made the final and one was in the poorest World Cup I have seen (1990).

                I disagree about Loew. Whatever was wrong with the squad, he could not fix it, and he started on the wrong foot by excluding Sane. He has had his time IMHO.

                Is it time for a clear-out or do you give these players (the ones under 30) another go?
                Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 27-06-2018, 17:50.

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                  #9
                  Having a real tempus fugit moment realising that the fabulous youngsters that I saw tearing through England in the Euro U21 final in Malmo in 2009 (in a dress rehearsal for the 2010 WC senior meeting) are now the dead wood.

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                    #10
                    What really went wrong is that I bought their home shirt. Cursed it, G. Soz about that.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Wouter D View Post
                      So why did they return at all?

                      French toast is a good thing to do with slightly stale bread.

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                        #12
                        As noted on the match thread, the problem is not unique to Germany but all reigning champions. Nobody has retained the trophy since 1962.
                        Winning involves having a good dose of luck. Doesn't happen twice.

                        Germany in 2014 could have (should have) lost to Ghana, and Algeria were close enough to knocking them out.

                        Paraguay had Spain on the ropes in 2010 and Robben had multiple brain farts in the final.

                        Italy in 2006 relied on pennos in the final. And Australia weren't far off eliminating them in the group phase.

                        Belgium scored a perfectly good opening goal against Brazil in 2002. Disallowed.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                          French toast is a good thing to do with slightly stale bread.
                          very good

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post
                            Winning involves having a good dose of luck. Doesn't happen twice.

                            Germany in 2014 could have (should have) lost to Ghana, and Algeria were close enough to knocking them out.

                            Paraguay had Spain on the ropes in 2010 and Robben had multiple brain farts in the final.

                            Italy in 2006 relied on pennos in the final. And Australia weren't far off eliminating them in the group phase.

                            Belgium scored a perfectly good opening goal against Brazil in 2002. Disallowed.
                            Fair point. Cup football has a lot of random events.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post
                              Italy in 2006 relied on pennos in the final. And Australia weren't far off eliminating them in the group phase.
                              Round of 16. But your general point stands, obviously.

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                                #16
                                Given the reliability of premium German car brands these days, a Mercedes is probably an apt analogy.

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                                  #17
                                  This is new territory for Germany. Consider how many times the other teams in the last 16 have gone further in the World Cup than Germany.

                                  Brazil 8 times (38,58,62,70,78,94,98,02)
                                  France: 4 times (38,58,98,06)
                                  Sweden: 3 times (38, 58,94)
                                  Argentina: 2 times (78,86)

                                  Once:
                                  Switzerland (38)
                                  England (66)
                                  Croatia (98)
                                  Spain (10)

                                  Never:
                                  Russia
                                  Uruguay
                                  Portugal
                                  Denmark
                                  Mexico
                                  Belgium
                                  Colombia/Senegal/Japan

                                  This will be a scar on German self-confidence.

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                                    #18
                                    Ye'll just have to console yerselves with all those World Cup trophies.

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                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by G-Man View Post
                                      This is new territory for Germany. Consider how many times the other teams in the last 16 have gone further in the World Cup than Germany.

                                      Brazil 8 times (38,58,62,70,78,94,98,02)
                                      France: 4 times (38,58,98,06)
                                      Sweden: 3 times (38, 58,94)
                                      Argentina: 2 times (78,86)

                                      Once:
                                      Switzerland (38)
                                      England (66)
                                      Croatia (98)
                                      Spain (10)

                                      Never:
                                      Russia
                                      Uruguay
                                      Portugal
                                      Denmark
                                      Mexico
                                      Belgium
                                      Colombia/Senegal/Japan

                                      This will be a scar on German self-confidence.
                                      Can you really say England went farther, when they met in the final, same applies to Brazil and Argentina?

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                                        #20
                                        Well, exceeded Germany in success?

                                        In a way, I'm relieved that Germany didn't go through to meet Brazil. All that hype about Brazil avenging the "Mineirazo" would have been utterly unbearable. Small comforts...

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                                          #21
                                          Yes, I think so.

                                          Also worth noting that Ireland has a 100% record in getting out of the group stage at World Cups. Maximum efficienz

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                                            #22
                                            Harsh on Uruguay, who won it twice when Germany were not there. Italy and Netherlands would usually be there and thus in the list.

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                                              #23
                                              Arsene Wenger speaks fluent German, doesn't he?

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                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                                Harsh on Uruguay, who won it twice when Germany were not there. Italy and Netherlands would usually be there and thus in the list.
                                                Cuba can get a mention as well (1938).

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                                                  #25
                                                  My entirely self-centred reason for not sharing the Schadenfreude is that I like watching the Bundesliga on TV and I don't want to be told that it doesn't matter if Schalke and Gladbach put on a show with some pretty goals and VAR drama, because in global terms they're all a bit shit. We know the foreigners are mostly second-string, because when a Dembele or Keita or Aumabeyang gets a better offer they leave, but you expect the Germans to light things up (before leaving too, or just going to Bayern). They're the ones that made it through all those ultra-competitive age groups, they must be quality.

                                                  Now it's going to feel like watching English club rugby.

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