The national TV viewership thread

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

No, I'm saying that you shouldn't be surprised that the figures are a bit higher for England games. There's fuckloads of english people living here.

Also DG, the thing you're missing is that the unspoken part of that Claire Byrne show survey is that Northern Irish people would have to want to do it. It's basically the same question as "would you like to have Jennifer Lawrence as a life partner?" 73% of Irish people would probably say yes. But it would rather rely on her being up for it. Otherwise it would involve a sort of Room scenario.

Look at it this way, no-one has any problem with the captain of the Irish Rugby team being an ulster Unionist, who considers himself irish and British. That's just grand. And he doesn't have any problem with being the Irish rugby captain. And everyone is happy. That's all that means.

Anyway, there probably isn't going to be a northern ireland in a couple of years so the point is probably moot. We always assumed that unionists would eventually grow out of it, but brexit is going to accelerate the process.

[Duncan Gardner]

No, I'm saying that you shouldn't be surprised that the figures are a bit higher for England games. There's fuckloads of english people living here

The figures are quite a lot higher (according to KE) and I'm pretty sure they predate recent migration from England (back) to Ireland. You've spent 30 years riffing often obsessing about English football, why are you embarrassed/ in denial that hundreds of thousands of your fellow Culchies are too?

Also DG, the thing you're missing is that the unspoken part of that Claire Byrne show survey is that Northern Irish people would have to want to do it

Er, I pointed out on this thread- as previously- that it's unspoken. Basically because mentioning it specifically reveals the absurdity. We don't want to merge with/ be taken over by/ subsume your football team. It would mean the end of our football team. Any RTE listener who doesn't realise this is either uninterested in international football- in which case they are or should be a don't know/ care in such polls. Or they're at primary school or fibbing. The rest can be added to the usual suspects- daydreaming Shinners, bored shit-stirrers or simpletons that think merging 2 mediocre teams makes a World-beater almost automatically.

It's basically the same question as "would you like to have Jennifer Lawrence as a life partner?"

Ask fans of your Da's age they're more likely to say Tommy Lawrence

Look at it this way, no-one has any problem with the captain of the Irish Rugby team being an ulster Unionist, who considers himself irish and British. That's just grand. And he doesn't have any problem with being the Irish rugby captain. And everyone is happy. That's all that means

Your man-crush on some egg-chaser is irrelevant to the above. But incidentally- since you mention him and we're doing that passing off personal anecdotage as evidence of wider trends thing- my circle of rugby-watching ex-school chums have gone relatively quiet about the all-conquering inclusive AI team in recent months, despite various impressive wins. Would it have anything to do with so many of the players and other fans revealing themselves to be misogynist twats?

Anyway, there probably isn't going to be a northern ireland in a couple of years so the point is probably moot. We always assumed that unionists would eventually grow out of it, but brexit is going to accelerate the process

Say couple of decades and we can have a sensible discussion. But right now the craziness of Brexit- making it almost impossible for anyone to talk more shite than the Tory government- is masking that you're still the 50 successive posts about an anti-MU conspiracy guy that we know and love

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

As for that RTE Poll. If it was any more of a zero-sum game both Coke and Pepsi could sponsor it. There is no likelihood of a UI side beyond the existing situation while partition endures, and still little chance of that changing for a generation or more. Thanks for the coiffure tips btw, even though I'm nearly as bald as you are.

You have a snide habit of referring my roots any time we disagree, as if I stepped out of UDA kindergarten yesterday rather than 50 years ago.Knock it on the head, there's a good lad.

It doesn't make it a zero sum game. It's not supposed to be one wins and one loses, it's supposed to be that both come together of their own will and achieve more. It's not a threat, it's a standing offer. It's basically what People in the south think about Northern Ireland in general, and the thing about your roots showing, is that you see that extended hand of friendship as a fist.

The figures are quite a lot higher (according to KE) and I'm pretty sure they predate recent migration from England (back) to Ireland. You've spent 30 years riffing often obsessing about English football, why are you embarrassed/ in denial that hundreds of thousands of your fellow Culchies are too?

But the audience for the second england match was one of the lowest in the tournament. Surely if there were loads of Irish people who wanted to see Gareth's lads rack up the goals they would have been watching that match. Irish people primarily watch england play because it's an event, and it might be funny. Loads of Irish people watch england play in the six nations. It don't think anyone is suggesting that they want anything other than england to lose. This is a country where if you announce you're going to do something in a field, 40,000 people will turn up to see.

Er, I pointed out on this thread- as previously- that it's unspoken. Basically because mentioning it specifically reveals the absurdity. We don't want to merge with/ be taken over by/ subsume your football team. It would mean the end of our football team. Any RTE listener who doesn't realise this is either uninterested in international football- in which case they are or should be a don't know/ care in such polls. Or they're at primary school or fibbing. The rest can be added to the usual suspects- daydreaming Shinners, bored shit-stirrers or simpletons that think merging 2 mediocre teams makes a World-beater almost automatically.

But that's not what the question is about. That question is supposed to find out what people in the south think on the issue. I'm not sure what the point of the question is, I'm sure it was relevant to the programme. What people in northern ireland think about it is a matter for them. opinions are divided I hear. The thing is that it doesn't make the point you thought it does. It's perfectly possible to hope that NI do well at euro 2016, and thinking that an all island team would be a nice thing. The important thing to remember is that most people who live in the south, would like nice things to happen in NI. And doing well in an international tournament is a lot of fun. I think it isn't much of an exaggeration to say that Euro 88 and italia 90 were the first positive things to happen in the history of our state, and it certainly changed the way we thought about ourselves. Before Jack Charlton, the tricolour was something you saw folded up on IRA coffins on the News. After him it was something you wrapped around yourself as you hugged a german riot policeman, while drinking in the street.

Your man-crush on some egg-chaser is irrelevant to the above. But incidentally- since you mention him and we're doing that passing off personal anecdotage as evidence of wider trends thing- my circle of rugby-watching ex-school chums have gone relatively quiet about the all-conquering inclusive AI team in recent months, despite various impressive wins. Would it have anything to do with so many of the players and other fans revealing themselves to be misogynist twats?

The Travails of Ulster aside, that's not the point. The point is that people in the south honestly don't give a shit, and think it's perfectly normal for Rory best to be the captain. Also we are aware that ulster rugby is basically posh unionists in short pants, and they are fine with that too. That's just the way it is. We made the daughter of an orange man minister of culture, and put her in charge of the 1916/somme centenary commemorations. Our taoiseach is half indian and Gay. We really don't care. (Though That's not true of lord Kilclooney I'm afraid.)

Say couple of decades and we can have a sensible discussion. But right now the craziness of Brexit- making it almost impossible for anyone to talk more shite than the Tory government- is masking that you're still the 50 successive posts about an anti-MU conspiracy guy that we know and love

I really don't know about this DG. There's a number of clear steps to this. If the UK govt doesn't put a customs border in the Irish sea, there's going to be no deal. If there's no deal, there's going to be a hard border. If there's a hard border, then there's going to be a border poll. And suddenly all of the diehard unionist farmers of ulster are going to be faced with a choice. It's either the Queen or the CAP. It's keeping faith with the dead unionist generations, or losing all of the land, all at once. 85% of NI farm income comes from the CAP. that could all happen in under 3 years.

Juncker was in dublin last week and told the dail that Ireland's border is Europe's border, and if there's no backstop there's no deal. The EU is drawing up contingency plans for the talks to fail, because they're starting to despair of the UK being able to get it together. They can't agree to anything without splitting the tory party. And they're reliant pn the DUP who want the Uk to leave the customs union, for there to be no border, but no customs border in the irish Sea. Any two of those makes the third impossible. They also have 10 of the maddest parliamentarians in Europe.

Here's the thing. Traditionally Unionism is basically made up of three main components. It's a) one-third protestant supremacy and planter ideology, B) It's one-third wanting to be ruled by the UK. Half of that is in support of a) half the belief it's a better deal and c) tradition. There's not a lot else that is particularly unique to it. Aside from supporting Rangers over celtic, trying to win a darwin award with bonfires, a culture based mostly around trolling, drawing the wrong conclusions from the battle of the somme, and finishing school prematurely by 21st century standards.

People are interested in various parts of it to different degrees. But All that has been hollowed out by the years. Protestant supremacy isn't a big seller these days. The presbyterians have lost nearly half their members over the last 40 years. Religious observance has collapsed across the board. Which wipes out a lot of the second reason. Then do you really want people to be trying to figure out if they get a better deal being part of the UK, in the aftermath of a no-deal brexit, and a resurrection of the Border? that really only leaves tradition, and that's not as strong an appeal to many as it used to be. Particularly when the four economic horsemen of the Brexpocalypse are stalking the land. It only has to be 50%+1. Not that many have to change sides.

The backstop agreement has to be signed by october. if that doesn't happen, the border goes up on march 29th 2019. That's 9 months away. That's also 15 months to have a border poll before qualification begins for the 2022 world cup. There's a lot hinging on that backstop.

[Diable Rouge]

An interesting virtual tie at the top this week - England B v Belgium B recorded 422,000 vs 415,000 for Croatia v Denmark, but the latter peaked much higher, at 545,000 - presumably during the shootout. Otherwise, Uruguay-Portugal (389,000), Serbia-Brazil (320,000) and France-Argentina (289,000) completed the top five.

[N est à?]

A seperate northern ireland side could still continue in the event of the political unification of ireland, no?

[Duncan Gardner]

A seperate northern ireland side could still continue in the event of the political unification of ireland, no?

Possibly. There are precedents in other continents, eg Hong Kong, Virgin Islands. However I think it's widely accepted by NI fans that a united Ireland would mean the end of the NI team, similar to East Germany's disbanding in 1990.

Readers will recognise that #27 and #28 above are but the latest episodes in a long-term argument. Although whatever you think of All mouthbreathing Unionist bigots v One drug-addled Culchie gobshite, it's hardly as inevitable as Berba claims above that the border will disappear in 3 or 5 years. Variously

* recent opinion polls have shown wide variation in NI (and of course the polling industry understated 'yes' support in the Abortion Referendum by a sizable 10 or 12%). Even if you assume widespread 'shy' nationalism- people who'll be more honest in an online than phone or door-knock sample- the picture is confused

* there's a Census due in 2021 and an election by 2022. The former may include a specific border poll question; the latter will squeeze the 'Others' vote as ever. Even despite that Nationalism managed only 41% a year ago. Which among things suggest that a simple two-option referendum may well be delayed awhile yet

* a United Ireland means changes just as stark, or starker, than those Berba mentions following Brexit. The Irish Republic would be taking on an extra 40% population, much of it likely hostile, at a time when its economy may well be badly affected

@DR- OK, so a very large audience watched two other countries play effectively a reserve friendly. What conclusions do you draw from that?