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    So, the third placed qualifiers then.

    The rules letting third place qualifiers into the tournament and third placed group positions into the round of 16 were seen by some as diluting the competition. Did they in the end.

    The third placed qualifiers were Turkey (who qualified automatically), Hungary, Ukraine, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Republic of Ireland, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia who went into the play-offs with Ukraine, Sweden, ROI and Hungary all progressing.

    Out of those 5, Turkey came third but not good enough to progress out of the groups with one win against Czech Republic who came bottom. Hungary topped their group beating Austria and drawing against Portugal and Iceland and capitulated to Belgium after 75 minutes in the R16. Sweden pretty much stunk the place out, I thought, but perhaps others are less harsh on them. ROI progressed as third placed team in their group and had a decent enough tournament, I thought. Ukraine were crap.

    Out of all of those, I think that Hungary and ROI were definitely worth being there but, probably, Hungary were the only ones that were good value at the tournament.

    As for the third placed going into R16, aside from Turkey and ROI who we have already covered, there was Northern Ireland, Slovakia and Portugal. Neither Slovakia nor NI had the greatest teams but their supporters added a lot (well, Slovakians clapped us out of the stadium and the NI supporters were good value and outsang us in Paris) and certainly Slovakia provided some interesting results. They were both certainly worth their R16 places. That leaves us with Portugal, of course, who only kicked into gear when they beat us deservedly by being the best team on the night and won the whole thing by being the team prepared to be a bit more positive in the final.

    There has been talk that the third placed qualifier for the tournament ruling allowed teams such as ourselves, Iceland and Albania to play more positively, without fear and less cautiously due to there being more chance of us to qualify with a couple more defeats than normal. Firstly, I am not sure this holds water - Iceland beat Holland home and away, we beat Belgium at home and drew away (0-0 as well fairly pragmatically) and Albania beat Portugal away (albeit losing at home. Also, if it does encourage teams to take more risks and be more positive, then that is a good thing, no?

    Personally, I think that, while the third place qualifiers were, on balance, a success whereas the third-placed groups qualifiers into R16 were possibly more mixed. I have to say that, although they were deserved semi-final and final winners, Portugal's whole run-up to the semi-final was fairly sub-standard and uninspiring. Of course, it comes back to a similar situation as to when Greece won - they succeeded under the rules fair and square. Greece weren't the best team in Europe in 2004 and Portugal probably aren't now but that isn't the point and none of the management, players and supporters are going to give the square root of fuck all and rightly so.

    The question is what we want the Euros and World Cups to be - devices to find the best teams in Europe or the World or to be entertaining celebrations and demonstrations of great football. I could be wrong but I suspect most would want the latter and I think that the third-placed qualifiers to the tournament added to that - aside form Ukraine, real stinkers like Russia and Sweden qualified automatically - but the third placed team to R16 weren't quite so convincing.

    #2
    So, the third placed qualifiers then.

    If UEFA had not gone for a last 16 round, but had opted for the "quarter-final" groups of 3 as per the 1982 World Cup, those second-round groups at Euro 2016 would have been:

    Group A - France, Germany, Iceland

    Group B - Wales, Croatia, Belgium

    Group C - Switzerland, Poland, Hungary

    Group D - England, Spain, Italy

    So it looks like we'd still have got showdowns between France and Germany, and Wales and Belgium. England would have suffered a less embarassing exit than they did. And "Group C" would have produced another surprise semi-finalist, Poland, I reckon, looking at it.

    Conspicuously, of course, Portugal wouldn't have been in it.

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      #3
      So, the third placed qualifiers then.

      There is a train of thought that Portugal, needing a win not just a draw to qualify, might have beaten Hungary in that last group game. If they'd done so 4-3, they'd have replaced Hungary as group winners, so gone into the group with the Swiss and the Poles, instead of being eliminated altogether. Fine margins indeed.

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        #4
        So, the third placed qualifiers then.

        In the final group game, didn't Santos pass a note to Ronaldo to tell him not to try for the last bit of the match, in order to get onto the right side of the draw? False story, luck or masterstroke?

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          #5
          So, the third placed qualifiers then.

          More likely Santos has trying to avoid defeat, which would have put Portugal out.

          On the OP, you could say that there were only 8 or so good sides here so third could certainly beat second. Maybe also Hungary and Rep of Ireland were improving as the qualifiers went on, and ROI were toughened by winning a play-off. Austria, Belgium and England were very badly coached in a way that the finals exposed but qualifiers did not.

          Wales and Iceland are good sides and I think would have qualified in the old format; it is just a coincidence that their debuts were in the first 24 team event.

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            #6
            So, the third placed qualifiers then.

            Satchmo Distel wrote: Maybe also Hungary...were improving as the qualifiers went on
            Yes (in the sense that they managed an eight game unbeaten stretch after losing the first game, and then eased through the play-offs), but also No (couldn't manage a single win in six matches against car-crash Greece, goal-shy Romania and 10-man NI).

            Wales and Iceland would have had to play-off in the old format. Possibly against each other?

            If they aren't going to return to a 16 team finals, I'd accept 32 teams but cut the round of 16 (so only four extra matches, 51 to 55).

            This could mean the last two games in a group stage of six would be 'dead' (ie team A wins twice while the other games are drawn), but if counts for nowt why not play a gung-ho friendly?

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              #7
              So, the third placed qualifiers then.

              16 teams is more than enough in future. Any more and more than a third of the European teams get to the Finals which is a farce IMO.

              Even that will still accomodate more than enough dross.

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                #8
                So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                Round of 16 should stay. If UEFA has moved away from hosting in one country, 32 is almost inevitable. 9 groups, top 3 through and 10 fourth place teams play-off.

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                  #9
                  So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                  Multi-country is definite for 2020 as a 'anniversary one-off' (or, 'no-one wanted to host it'). It's not ideal but it's better than the World Cups either side.

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                    #10
                    So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                    32 is a farce. Why even bother with qualifiers?

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                      #11
                      So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                      If there were 55 nations in UEFA and 32 in the finals, you could just do 1 host + top 8 seeds auto qualify + 23 winners of two-legged playoff between the other 46 = 32. Could finish all the qualifiers within a week.

                      But the Nations League as well as the Euro qualifiers just seems to make things messy. Surely the two won't be able to coexist for long?

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                        #12
                        So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                        Bored of Education wrote
                        Multi-country is definite for 2020 as a 'anniversary one-off' (or, 'no-one wanted to host it').
                        Wasn't quite so much "no-one wanted to host it" as "Who wants to host it?" "Turkey". "Er, oh, okay, anyone else?". "England. England are desperate for it".

                        "Zut alors."

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                          #13
                          So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                          As far as I understand it, it was Turkey, Scotland/ROI/Wales or Georgia/Azerbaijan. I would imagine that UEFA would have bitten England's hand off if they had bid.

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                            #14
                            So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                            Lodzubelieveit wrote: If there were 55 nations in UEFA and 32 in the finals, you could just do 1 host + top 8 seeds auto qualify + 23 winners of two-legged playoff between the other 46 = 32. Could finish all the qualifiers within a week.

                            But the Nations League as well as the Euro qualifiers just seems to make things messy. Surely the two won't be able to coexist for long?
                            Good points/post all round!

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                              #15
                              So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                              Why did Italy not want it?

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                                #16
                                So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                                Their stadiums aren't up to scratch in the main.
                                And renovating isn't exactly a priority currently.

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                                  #17
                                  So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                                  Italy bid for Euro 2016.

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                                    #18
                                    So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                                    Lodzubelieveit wrote: If there were 55 nations in UEFA and 32 in the finals, you could just do 1 host + top 8 seeds auto qualify + 23 winners of two-legged playoff between the other 46 = 32. Could finish all the qualifiers within a week.

                                    But the Nations League as well as the Euro qualifiers just seems to make things messy. Surely the two won't be able to coexist for long?
                                    Maybe limit the Nations League to the top 16, who play 4 groups of 4 instead of Euro qualifiers, which the other 37 play as 11 groups of 3, one of 4, 12 winners through, best 6 or 8 runners-up play off. Euro finals is the 16 NL teams and 16 qualifiers.

                                    In other words, exempt the top 16, based on UEFA rankings, from Euro qualifiers.

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                                      #19
                                      So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                                      Borracho wrote: Italy bid for Euro 2016.
                                      That's why they didn't get it, see my post above!

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                                        #20
                                        So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                                        Satchmo Distel wrote:
                                        Originally posted by Lodzubelieveit
                                        If there were 55 nations in UEFA and 32 in the finals, you could just do 1 host + top 8 seeds auto qualify + 23 winners of two-legged playoff between the other 46 = 32. Could finish all the qualifiers within a week.

                                        But the Nations League as well as the Euro qualifiers just seems to make things messy. Surely the two won't be able to coexist for long?
                                        Maybe limit the Nations League to the top 16, who play 4 groups of 4 instead of Euro qualifiers, which the other 37 play as 11 groups of 3, one of 4, 12 winners through, best 6 or 8 runners-up play off. Euro finals is the 16 NL teams and 16 qualifiers.

                                        In other words, exempt the top 16, based on UEFA rankings, from Euro qualifiers.
                                        Do you mean based on the European nations' rankings in Fifa as the UEFA rankings are somewhat different as they are based on how clubs in the associations do. Either way, before the qualifiers for 2016, this would have meant that Holland would have got a bye

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                                          #21
                                          So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                                          I am totally on board with this plan.

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                                            #22
                                            So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                                            On reflection I would give the bye to the last 16 from the previous Euros, as that is factual whereas ranking are rather dubious.

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                                              #23
                                              So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                                              Áfram Island!

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                                                #24
                                                So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                                                That revised plan would monumentally piss on Scotland's chips, as all other teams from Britain and Ireland would be straight through...

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                                                  #25
                                                  So, the third placed qualifiers then.

                                                  Bloody hell, yes, the last 16 was no indicator of quality at all. Slovakia and NI were good value but no need for them to progress automatically. Indeed, no need for us nor Iceland to progress automatically. In saying that, I don't think anyone should progress automatically.

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