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International football now a sideshow

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    International football now a sideshow

    While most of us first gained an interest in the game through the World Cup or European Championship, it has become painfully clear over the last decade that such tournaments have rapidly become second-fiddle to the all-powerful embrace of club football. Classic tournaments have become increasingly rare due to player exhaustion after long seasons in pursuit of domestic and European glory, with France 98 and Euro 2000 the last truly memorable events, subsequent years also becoming characterised by premature international retirements. The trend has been most painfully evident in the performances of both England and Ireland, the requirement to hare after lost possession in the Premier League leaving both squads physically and mentally fatigued in matchplay, ultimately resulting in swift elimination. But all nations appear to have saved their best football for the club game, the standard of play rapidly deteriorating after the second round of group games. Will Messi and Ronaldo be remembered for their failure on the international stage, or their record-breaking club exploits?

    #2
    International football now a sideshow

    I thought the 2006 World Cup was pretty damn good.

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      #3
      International football now a sideshow

      There's a forum on here which makes a pretty good case that 2008 wasn't too bad.

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        #4
        International football now a sideshow

        You may be right but, increasingly, it is becoming the main event for me. I am not making out that international football is some socialist festival of corinthian values but the ludicrous notion of footballers being taken away from their employers to play for their countries for £50 a game (or whatever it is, I have never known) amuses me. That and the lack of sponsors' logos, venal chairmen replaced by amateurish FAs and the possibility of visiting different cultures further afield than Mansfield place it higher on my list, especially now

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          #5
          International football now a sideshow

          Diable Rouge wrote: ultimately resulting in swift elimination
          Surely it was either swift or ultimate?

          Will Messi and Ronaldo be remembered for their failure on the international stage, or their record-breaking club exploits?
          Both in Messi's case, as Argentina have under-achieved in recent World Cups. Whereas Ronaldo has helped a small country to a final and two semis.

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            #6
            International football now a sideshow

            I'd also argue that the fall of England is more related to the rise of other countries.

            In the 60s, 70s and even 80s, a lot of countries couldn't really afford to compete in international football. Take Ireland for example. Club players would have to play for their English club on Saturday, take the ferry to Dublin on Saturday night, walk from the port up to the ground on Sunday morning, play the match on Sunday afternoon and report back to trianing in England on the Monday. As for away matches, there was hardly any money for them.

            I would argue that international football has become much more competitive. Small countries' football associations (e.g. Croatia, Greece etc.) have become much more organised, air travel has become much more accessible and the money in the game has made it possible for all countries to take part. Remember, Ireland were supposed to be at the 1950 World Cup in Brazil but just couldn't afford to go.

            It's no longer possible to show up with a big star player and 22 half-competent players and waltz your way to the final. The other teams are just too well organised and their players are all professionals.

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              #7
              International football now a sideshow

              One may aslo argue that for example the 1986 and 1990 World Cups weren't that great either. The quality and entertainment value of the World Cup has always fluctuated.

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                #8
                International football now a sideshow

                I don't think it's a coincidence that the two countries who put their national team above their club teams, Germany and Italy, are also more successful than the other national teams.

                Although every two years football supporters from England will complain about the national team, they're not really that intereseted to accept changes which influence club football. For example the winter break in Germany gives them a massive advantage over other mational teams. Do any other leagues have a winter break?

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                  #9
                  International football now a sideshow

                  Bryaniek wrote: Remember, Ireland were supposed to be at the 1950 World Cup in Brazil but just couldn't afford to go
                  They also failed to qualify, only receiving that invitation after other teams pulled out.

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                    #10
                    International football now a sideshow

                    I'd love to believe that England's failure was due to fatigue. There's more to it than that though.

                    I'm not sure it has to be either/or with Messi. If he wins the World Cup I think that will be his defining moment as a footballer, but if he doesn't he will still be regarded as an all-time great.

                    TV viewing figures suggest that the appetite for major tournaments is as strong as its ever been. The football may not have been that memorable, but the public enjoy the spontaneous drama of it all. 87 per cent of the Spanish public watched Fabregas' winning penalty last night.

                    In an atomised world, international football is one of the few things that binds societies together.

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                      #11
                      International football now a sideshow

                      Defensive minded wrote: For example the winter break in Germany gives them a massive advantage over other mational teams. Do any other leagues have a winter break?
                      Most of them do I think.

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                        #12
                        International football now a sideshow

                        England would still be fucked by a tournament with or without a winter break, because they'd be knackered from chasing shadows for two-thirds of a match.

                        This point though:
                        Although every two years football supporters from England will complain about the national team, they're not really that intereseted to accept changes which influence club football.
                        How do we know? Part of the problem is that stakeholder interests at the FA combine to make us never do anything after a tournament. No proposals ever get brought forward like winter breaks. No fans are consulted on what they think should happen; most clubs aren't either, and even if they did, they'd be unlikely to ask fans.

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                          #13
                          International football now a sideshow

                          I don't think it's a coincidence that the two countries who put their national team above their club teams, Germany and Italy, are also more successful than the other national teams.
                          I always had an idea that Holland did more than, certainly, Italy. Am I wrong?

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                            #14
                            International football now a sideshow

                            This point though:
                            Although every two years football supporters from England will complain about the national team, they're not really that intereseted to accept changes which influence club football.

                            How do we know? Part of the problem is that stakeholder interests at the FA combine to make us never do anything after a tournament. No proposals ever get brought forward like winter breaks. No fans are consulted on what they think should happen; most clubs aren't either, and even if they did, they'd be unlikely to ask fans.
                            At the risk of repeating myself, winter breaks are often used as excuses/reasons for England's failures by managers but this real reason are the grass-roots coaching that has been somewhat addressed by the FA's youth development review.

                            As you suggest in your first paragraph, England could still have a winter break and be knackered in a tournament playing the style of football that they do.

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                              #15
                              International football now a sideshow

                              Double post

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                                #16
                                International football now a sideshow

                                While most of us first gained an interest in the game through the World Cup or European Championship
                                Is this true?

                                It generally is for those of us who were children in footballing backwaters like the US, but my recollection of "first match" threads of the past is that most of our first experiences were with club football, almost always in the company of a male relative.

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                                  #17
                                  International football now a sideshow

                                  Yes, I agree with that.

                                  Has there ever been a supporters association which has demanded a winter break? Traditionally the Xmas and New Year were the more highly attended fixtures of the season making it popular with all parties.

                                  If we ever had a winter break then you would need a reduction in fixtures to match, you could not play the same amount of games in 5 or 6 weeks less. That would also require the FA to take a hit as the FA Cup would need to be reshaped and the League Cup would be hard to justify at all.

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                                    #18
                                    International football now a sideshow

                                    Give a Premier League club a two week winter break, and you can bet your bottom $ they'd have an exhibition tournament in an 'emerging market' set up for the middle weekend before you could say Jehovah.

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                                      #19
                                      International football now a sideshow

                                      Donbas Ogrodnik wrote:
                                      Originally posted by Bryaniek
                                      Remember, Ireland were supposed to be at the 1950 World Cup in Brazil but just couldn't afford to go
                                      They also failed to qualify, only receiving that invitation after other teams pulled out.
                                      Well that's the point isn't it? A load of teams couldn't afford to go. Wouldn't happen today.

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                                        #20
                                        International football now a sideshow

                                        ursus arctos wrote:
                                        While most of us first gained an interest in the game through the World Cup or European Championship
                                        Is this true?

                                        It generally is for those of us who were children in footballing backwaters like the US, but my recollection of "first match" threads of the past is that most of our first experiences were with club football, almost always in the company of a male relative.
                                        But the reason those kids were taken to a live match was because they had displayed an interest in football when it was on their television. Which, given the period we are talking about, was only international tournaments and the Cup Final.

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                                          #21
                                          International football now a sideshow

                                          English players will always be knackered for international tournaments because they are generally the players who, in domestic games, are expected to 'run themselves into the ground' and 'put their bodies on the line.'

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                                            #22
                                            International football now a sideshow

                                            One of the historical reasons against having a winter break in england has been the unpredictability of when bad weather will strike. February and march were historically as likely to produce snow as december and january, leaving you faced with the prospect of horrendous fixture congestion. leaving out the winter break meant you got through the games when you could.

                                            But I'm not sure that would be a problem today though.

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                                              #23
                                              International football now a sideshow

                                              Hey, I think you're focussing a bit too much on the winter break. It was just an example for clubs being more important that the national team in England.

                                              Another example is that setting up a youth system for English players is not that important to English clubs, as they can buy young foreign players for less money.

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                                                #24
                                                International football now a sideshow

                                                I have long been of the view that international football is in decline, partly through the rise of the club game and partly through the chronical mismanagement by FIFA.

                                                Where I feel we are now in Europe is that most of the international game has become pretty incidental to most people between the two year summer tournament cycles. There are too many qualifiers and the groups are structured so itis hard for the major nations not to qualify, friendlies are a tedious grind that are just a hassle and are usually scheduled at pretty stupid times.

                                                The problem is that we have now had two poor quality summer tournaments in succession and it's hard to see how the Euros will ever be special again when we go to 24 sides. These events are the flagbearing ones for the international game, without them being a success then you start to question the wider point.

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                                                  #25
                                                  International football now a sideshow

                                                  dalliance wrote: I have long been of the view that international football is in decline
                                                  Really? First we've heard about it...

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