Sunday Night At The Olympic Stadium - QF4

[jason voorhees]

Sunday Night At The Olympic Stadium - QF4

Watch the 1982 France-Germany shootout. Those keepers would fly to the posts at times, and it was a true 50/50%.

Like I wrote in the pks thread, the "just guess" theory died out in the late 80s.

[tracteurgarcon]

Sunday Night At The Olympic Stadium - QF4

Paul Cooper, possibly the best ever English penalty saving goalkeeper, used to stand off centre, presenting the taker with about 2/3s of the goal on his strongest side, which would mess with their head, they were never sure whether to put it the side he wanted them to or go for the smaller target on his weaker side.

He saved 8 out of 10 penalties in one memorable season a complete reverse of the usual 80% success rate for penalty takers.

[Defensive minded]

Sunday Night At The Olympic Stadium - QF4

dalliance wrote: I disagree with DM about Pirlo's penalty being foolhardy.

If the Italian research showed that everytime Hart makes an attempted penalty save he fully commits himself one way or another, then a dink to the middle by a player with the skill and all to execute it then makes sense. The risk is small.

Neuer would have saved that penalty because he would have been briefed beforehand that Pirlo likes to do a Panenka.

[dalliance]

Sunday Night At The Olympic Stadium - QF4

Because he has done this before does not mean that this is the way he always takes penalties though. He certainly didn't in the 2005 Champions League Final at the very least.

I would reckon that he saves these for games against keepers who do heartily commit - I think Hart is such a keeper. If he is taking one against Neuer in the semi-final I think he has an advantage. Neurer will have his England kick in mind, this might cause him to not fully commit and allows Pirlo to stroke it into a corner with the keeper in two minds.

Also, I think Pirlo is the sort of player who can buck the accepted normal practice for penalty takers of picking a spot and not changing your mind. He is very skilled and I think he could alter his penalty destination mid run-up based upon the keeper's body language at that point.

[Bored Of Education]

Sunday Night At The Olympic Stadium - QF4

I actually think that it is brilliant that Pirlo, having had one of those penalties saved, still does one in a Euro QF.

[Wyatt Earp]

Sunday Night At The Olympic Stadium - QF4

Hart tried something to shift the odds. It might have worked. It even might be the case that it did work--you can't tell with such a small sample size. To call him a clown because only one Italian penalty was missed seems incoherent to me, especially as one ought really to have been enough.

Some blame attaches to the Ashleys. But not as much as attaches to the team as a whole for how they played during the 120 minutes, especially the last 75 of them. You could say that England were 75% as effective as Italy in penalty-taking. They would have killed to come anything like as close as that in pass completion, or creating chances. Anything half-decent, against an Italy with a bad case of goalmouth fever, would have had them in with a shout.

[dalliance]

Sunday Night At The Olympic Stadium - QF4

Applying game theory, might it be worth the keeper randomly not moving for one out of five, but with the striker having no idea which one? This means the Pirlo pen would probably fail once in every 5.

Well it would only be one in five if every penalty taker chose to chip it down the middle too. Which they wouldn't.

I actually think that it is brilliant that Pirlo, having had one of those penalties saved, still does one in a Euro QF.

The thing is though, we have two examples of him taking this type of penalty, seven years apart and in a friendly and a glorified friendly. We have no examples as yet of him doing this in a significant game.

If you were the guy who was compiling a video for Joe Hart of Pirlo's penalty taking preferences, you would only draw on examples from proper competitive games surely?

[Bored Of Education]

Sunday Night At The Olympic Stadium - QF4

Are you calling Sunday a glorified friendly?

[Gangster Octopus]

Sunday Night At The Olympic Stadium - QF4

He calls all internationals glorified friendlies.

[Bruno]

Sunday Night At The Olympic Stadium - QF4

Defensive minded wrote: By the way, I thought Pirlo's penalty was a stupid piece of showboating that he got away with.

Nah. A well-executed chip shot has as much chance of going in as anything else. I think the demoralizing factor is perfectly legit, too, as it does make the keeper look a little foolish. It's just a double-edged sword in that respect.

(If he had done this you would have more of a case for showboating.)

If I'm right that it's a more technically difficult penalty to take, especially after 120 minutes in the knockout round of a major tournament, then it really is titanium gonad stuff. With jello legs I'd want to try and crush it, out of a fear of under-hitting it. (My attempt would bounce several times and stop just short of the goal line.) I'd also think it would be hard to disguise the intended pace of the shot in your run-up?

[Ray de Galles]

Sunday Night At The Olympic Stadium - QF4

tratorello wrote: Paul Cooper, possibly the best ever English penalty saving goalkeeper, used to stand off centre, presenting the taker with about 2/3s of the goal on his strongest side, which would mess with their head, they were never sure whether to put it the side he wanted them to or go for the smaller target on his weaker side.

I recall Buffon motioning towards one side of the goal to at least one penalty takers (possibly one of the Ashleys as I'm sure it was late in the shootout) in what I would imagine was a similar move.

[Ray de Galles]

Sunday Night At The Olympic Stadium - QF4

When Panenkas go wrong.

[Bored Of Education]

Sunday Night At The Olympic Stadium - QF4

That's right, Harry. I was trying to remember which keeper and which player it was.

[Cal Alamein]

Sunday Night At The Olympic Stadium - QF4

Though not true straight up-the-middle Panenkas, it is hard to top Lineker's Bobby Chalton-tying fail v. brazil.

I remember Maradona having a chipped pen saved v. Yugoslavia in WC 90.