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No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

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    #151
    No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

    I'd also say that most of the Irish fans who agreed with Roy Keane in 2002 have moved on and softened their opinion a bit on Mick McCarthy. Hell, the two of them even made up.

    But those who were against Keane are mostly those who see the world in black and white. To this day they still call him a "traitor". That's why they also interprete any comment from him as an attack on the singing. Because they see the world in black and white.

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      #152
      No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

      Bryaniek wrote:
      Originally posted by Brandenburger Toro
      Originally posted by Bryaniek
      Craig Doyle just appeared in the ad break to announce his programme later this evening, with his D4 accent: "Well, whether Roy likes it or not, the Irish are still singing in Poland."

      Now I have to go get the mop to clean the vomit up.
      Craig Doyle is obviously the worst cunt on the planet, but it was a reference to the fans at the match singing "We'll sing when we want, we'll sing when we wa-ant, fuck you Roy Keane, we'll sing when we want."

      You know, the ones who were actually at the game, "paying Trappatoni's wages".
      I was at the Croatia match. I also booked flights for the Spain game but couldn't get tickets. I reckon I've spent about 400 euros on travel, accommodation and tickets and only ended up at one match. So I don't appreciate you sniping at me like that.

      The supporters would boo the team if they got battered 3-1, 4-0 and 2-0 in Dublin. And rightly so. But at the Euros they all want to keep up the stereotype of the best fans in the world TM (C) (R). It's a bullshit façade.

      And Roy Keane didn't tell them not to sing, he said the players need to perform better. Roy Keane wants Ireland to win. But that's not good craic apparently.

      And Craig Doyle knows fuck all about football.
      Firstly, I'm not sniping, I'm pointing out that you cannot claim a privileged status as a member of a group you are simultaneously opposing.

      Secondly, yes, Doyle is an arsehole, who knows nothing about football. Nevertheless, his comment was an obvious joking reference to the unbroadcastable but clearly audible song, rather than an official denunciation of Keane and all his works and all his empty promises. In fact, it had exactly nothing to do with the content of Keane's remarks.

      Comment

        #153
        No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

        I never simultaneously opposed a group that I claimed priviledged status as a member of.

        I never said Craig Doyle was offically denunciating Roy Keane.

        Stop inventing positions for me and then arguing against them. It's really tiring.

        Here are my actual positions, which you can quote and argue against at will:

        My personal opinion regarding the supporters is that it's a bit silly to sing them off the pitch after their greatest margin of defeat in a competitive match since 1969. I think they'd have been booed off the pitch if the match had been a qualifier in Dublin. My personal opinion is that they fans trying to keep up appearances while being broadcast throughout the world. I don't have any proof, this is an opinion.

        And D4 celebrity types like Craig Doyle making comments about football just because we are in a major tournament is the vomit inducing downside of qualification. Once again, this is an opinion.

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          #154
          No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

          You held that your opinion as a fan should ipso facto be heeded, even as you disagreed with most fans.

          And you objected to the Doyle thing on the basis of its anti-Keane content, later elaborating by distinguishing what Roy was and wasn't saying. God knows what the D4 obsession is about...

          Comment

            #155
            No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

            ipso facto bla bla to you too, do you get in arguments with people at cash registers as well? or the bin collectors?

            no i don't agree with craig doyle saying anything about football.

            Comment

              #156
              No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

              Well, that's me convinced.

              Comment

                #157
                No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                Brandenburger Toro wrote: You held that your opinion as a fan should ipso facto be heeded, even as you disagreed with most fans.
                Yeah but like so what.

                Not that I really get the "keeping up appearances" accusation. I guess you could say that about any set of fans being the way they usually are, but again so what, they obviously enjoy it. Keeping up appearances is something you do when you're dead on the inside, and that's not the impression most people get from the happy-underdog Ireland supporters.

                I don't think it's necessary to compare international football support to league support either - two different atmospheres, the former more celebratory. Booing your national team seems a bit off, especially when qualifying for the tournament in the first place was a real accomplishment. And if keeping up appearances means putting a good foot forward on the international scene, well, that's good.

                Comment

                  #158
                  No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                  Brunislaw wrote:
                  Originally posted by Brandenburger Toro
                  You held that your opinion as a fan should ipso facto be heeded, even as you disagreed with most fans.
                  Yeah but like so what.
                  So the position is self-undermining. He's refuted himself.

                  Comment

                    #159
                    No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                    How do you make that out? Maybe he thinks the other fans should be heeded as well, and having heeded them, thinks they're up the creek.

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                      #160
                      No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                      The only person who shouldn't have heeded is Shay Given, for Croatia's 3rd goal. Right guys?

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                        #161
                        No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                        This is extrmely tiring.

                        When I referred to Trap listening to the fans who pay his wages it was in reference to him refusing to change the lineup for the final game.

                        I don't think I disagree with "most" of the fans in that respect.

                        But Toro likes to do this, he likes to take two random sentences written about two different things, put them next to each other and claim they contradict each other. As for taking an interest in the actual conversation being had or a true exchange of opinions, that is of secondary importance to Toro.

                        I may as well tell you what he will say next. I can't say that the fans disagree with the lineup while simultaneously disagreeing with them about singing the team off the pitch after being outplayed. This, of course, is pure hypocrisy, but at such an unbelievably obscure and anally retentive level that nobody gives a shit. (That pun was unintentional.)

                        Meanwhile, the thread has been killed and nobody is talking about football anymore. Another victory for the Toro.

                        Comment

                          #162
                          No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                          Mykolai on Earth wrote: How do you make that out? Maybe he thinks the other fans should be heeded as well, and having heeded them, thinks they're up the creek.
                          That works only for a very weak sense of "heed"; Trap should be aware of the fans' opinions when making decisions, but need attach little or no weight to them. So contradictory opinions in this sense can be "heeded" equally. But if that were all the point Bryan was making, his claim would be trivial indeed; does anyone doubt that Trap is thus aware?

                          What Bryan was claiming was that the opinions of fans, as such, should bear determinative weight. But if you're going to do that, you can't pick and choose between fans. If there's a reason his view should be heeded and that of other fans disregarded, it can't be merely that he is a fan.

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                            #163
                            No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                            Comment

                              #164
                              No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                              Awwwwww.

                              Comment

                                #165
                                No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                                I'm sorry that the effort to make sense is fatiguing to you, bryan.

                                People critique and pick apart claims the disagree with here. It's what a discussion board is *for*. If threads are "killed" when I do it to you, it's because you react to my criticism not by defending your position but by personalised yammering about how boring I am, and how argumentative, and how nobody else cares about whether your reasoning is actually consistent or not, and how I'm only doing this to satisfy my perverse rhetorical urges.

                                Your reasoning was demonstrably silly. Deal with it.

                                Comment

                                  #166
                                  No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                                  He could have crushed that dog but he chose not to.

                                  All hail Roy.

                                  Comment

                                    #167
                                    No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                                    Thank you Toro, for being so patient with me.

                                    The Toro:


                                    Me:

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                                      #168
                                      No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                                      Bryaniek wrote: This is extrmely tiring.

                                      When I referred to Trap listening to the fans who pay his wages it was in reference to him refusing to change the lineup for the final game.

                                      I don't think I disagree with "most" of the fans in that respect.

                                      ...

                                      I can't say that the fans disagree with the lineup while simultaneously disagreeing with them about singing the team off the pitch after being outplayed.
                                      Okay, I've been unfair here. You could be consistently claiming that majority fan views should be dispositive regarding team selection and tactics, but not about what songs to sing.

                                      You could, although it would be totally.insane.

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                                        #169
                                        No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                                        I could just be saying that since it's the last match of the tournament that, in my opinion, the coach should blood some new players for the sake of the fans, while, independently from that, also not personally really approving the 20 verses of Fields of Athenry for a team that lost 4-0.

                                        I mean, it really could be that fucking simple.

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                                          #170
                                          No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                                          I realise that you do hold the opinions you've stated on the thread. It's just that it's incoherent to hold them all together.

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                                            #171
                                            No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                                            I don't know what to say anymore. Put your energy into something more constructive.

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                                              #172
                                              No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                                              Yes, even I am wavering and lapsing into pity. A mate has just phoned from Dublin airport, where Trappaderci and the squad have gone to welcome home their fans from Warsaw.

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                                                #173
                                                No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                                                Kazakhstan are looking ominous in that medals table

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                                                  #174
                                                  No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                                                  Donbas Ogrodnik wrote: A mate has just phoned from Dublin airport, where Trappaderci and the squad have gone to welcome home their fans from Warsaw.
                                                  Haha, nice one.

                                                  Comment

                                                    #175
                                                    No, the South of Ireland are still crap really

                                                    Duncan Gardner wrote: Kazakhstan are looking ominous in that medals table
                                                    So long as we beat them in the boxing this month, and in the football next month, then they can clean up elsewhere.

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