Germany-Spain final thread.

[Bored Of Education]

Hey hey, first post in a whole forum

[Chairman Zhao]

Germany-Spain final thread.

A bit early with the predictions, don't you think?

[Bored Of Education]

Germany-Spain final thread.

Nope. It's going to be wrong, like, but that is the final it should be. We were denied it last year and I want to see it next year

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Germany-Spain final thread.

The draw will have a massive influence on who gets to the final, of course. There's a 50-50 chance that Germany will draw either Poland or Ukraine (and duly win their group and their quarter-final if we're assuming they will) but then have to face Spain in the semi-finals (if we're assuming Spain will, similarly, win theirs).

Ironically, the one way the draw works that would ensure Spain and Germany could meet in the final is if they began the tournament drawn together in group B or group C.

[anton pulisov]

Germany-Spain final thread.

The PIIGS have been dominating tournaments of late, and long may it continue. There is one I in that acronym that has been strangely missing from recent tournaments though, and I feel that this might be their time.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Germany-Spain final thread.

You've lost me at least. PIIGS?

[ursus arctos]

Germany-Spain final thread.

Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece & Spain.

You need to get out more.

[Flynnie]

Germany-Spain final thread.

Don't count out the Dutch. They have got to be, by some distance, the most likely non-Gerspaña winner.

[Wyatt Earp]

Germany-Spain final thread.

If this happens, I might find myself in the odd position of supporting Germany against Spain. "Odd" is an absurd understatement, actually. I need the Germans to commit some shockingly cynical foul or something in the group stages, to prevent this paradox from occurring, and ripping apart the very fabric of Time and Space like in "Father's Day".

[Bored Of Education]

Germany-Spain final thread.

I don't think it is odd. After Germany had beaten England (not because of), they played so well that I would have been happy for them to have beaten anyone on the way to winning the final. That semifinal against Spain was one of my favourite games ever, the final we should have had and, if it had been, either team would have deserved to win.

[Satchmo Distel]

Germany-Spain final thread.

Portugal Austria England Denmark Oman Switzerland would be worse

[dalliance]

Germany-Spain final thread.

I still feel Germany's World Cup performances are a little overstated. They thrashed England and Argentina who were utterly inept, the English every way and the Argentinians tactically.

Australia were shocking in the opening game too, the matches against Serbia and Ghana were pretty grim affairs all round and they looked stodgy against teams who packed their midfield properly.

Their performance against Spain summed them up for me, it was solid, hard running, disciplined, organised and energetic but lacking any great level of inspiration. They were undoubtedly the second best team of the tournament, but it was a poor tournament and a bit like Man United being arguably the second best team in the CL last season it's not really an award with much honour.

There is an assumption that they will be better this time because some of the younger players will be 2 years older and better. Fair enough, but Lahm, Schweinsteiger and Klose are going in the other direction. Still, if the coach can continue to perform the same alchemy that led to ordinary players like Podolski looking actually quite good last time then anything is possible.

[Gangster Octopus]

Germany-Spain final thread.

dalliance wrote:

There is an assumption that they will be better this time because some of the younger players will be 2 years older and better. Fair enough, but Lahm, Schweinsteiger and Klose are going in the other direction.

They're getting younger?

[Satchmo Distel]

Germany-Spain final thread.

Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.

[ale]

Germany-Spain final thread.

dalliance wrote:

I still feel Germany's World Cup performances are a little overstated. They thrashed England and Argentina who were utterly inept, the English every way and the Argentinians tactically.

Australia were shocking in the opening game too, the matches against Serbia and Ghana were pretty grim affairs all round and they looked stodgy against teams who packed their midfield properly.

Their performance against Spain summed them up for me, it was solid, hard running, disciplined, organised and energetic but lacking any great level of inspiration. They were undoubtedly the second best team of the tournament, but it was a poor tournament and a bit like Man United being arguably the second best team in the CL last season it's not really an award with much honour.

There is an assumption that they will be better this time because some of the younger players will be 2 years older and better. Fair enough, but Lahm, Schweinsteiger and Klose are going in the other direction. Still, if the coach can continue to perform the same alchemy that led to ordinary players like Podolski looking actually quite good last time then anything is possible.

more than a bit harsh regarding the England & Argentina results...neither expected such beatings and no other country could have managed such results including Spain ...their semi final put things into perspective though you would have fancied them to beat Holland had the draw been different...

Spains friendly results of late suggest a team sated by success and its difficult to automatically step up a gear or two in competition after spending the best part of two years going through the motions...

[G-Man]

Germany-Spain final thread.

While Germany beat England 4-1, Spain danced a not very inspiring Portugal to death with a 1-0. While Germany beat pre-tournament favourites Argentina (who look good in the group stages) 4-0, Spain struggled to a lucky 1-0 against Paraguay. I'd say that those two results were quite remarkable.

You do realise that Schweinsteiger is only 27, right? And at 28, Lahm still has another four years of good form in him.

And then there are youngters like Mario Götze, Mats Hummels and Toni Kroos coming through. And Metzelder should lose his place to Benedikt Höwedes, surely.

[dalliance]

Germany-Spain final thread.

The Portuguese were pretty dogged, flooded the midfield and were quite organised. The Argentinians and the English (after they went behind) basically surrendered the midfield to the Germans. They were skittles just lining up to be knocked over and good teams like Spain and Germany would have both done that. The Germans did not look a gift horse in the mouth and did their job really effectively. I think the Germans benefitted in part from being big surprises, few rated them, their players were not as well known and teams were not as scared of them initially in the way they were from the outset against Spain.

I suppose what i was saying is that the scores were as much a reflection of the ineptitude of their opponents as anything, I mean the Germans were scoring training ground goals in both.

I'm not trying to do the Germans down here at all, I enjoyed watching them as much as anyone and I think that rightly they are among the favourites for the Euros. For me the issue is more that they are the favourites because people seem to think that Spain are flawed or have lost appetite because they have lost some friendly games (ale is the latest above)

The players have come out and said how displeased they are with the schedule their FA has given them and they really could care less in these games. So the Germans take friendlies more seriously, good for them. Spain have a 39-1-2 record in competitive games and I think these useless time wasting friendlies are too strongly weighted in peoples minds personally.

[G-Man]

Germany-Spain final thread.

Oh, I totally agree that Germany are not the favourites to win this. Among the favourites, and a go draw in the office pool, but I don't like all that talk as though it's foregone conclusion.

[Seven Saxon Kings]

Germany-Spain final thread.

While Germany beat pre-tournament favourites Argentina (who look good in the group stages) 4-0

On what planet were Argentina anywhere near to being a pre-tournament favourite? They struggled through qualifying, including a 6-1 mauling in La Paz, with everyone (and OTF's resident Argentina expert Sam in particular) noting what a joke of a manager Maradona was. They were tactically clueless and were always going to be there for the taking against the first good side they came up against, as were England.

[Cavalry Trouser Tips]

Germany-Spain final thread.

Switzerland are going to get to the final of this.

[G-Man]

Germany-Spain final thread.

Of course Argentina were among the pre-tournament favourites. With a squad like that, they couldn't be otherwise.

A quick google reveals that in December 2009, Ladbrokes had Argentina joint 4th favourites, behind Spain, Brazil and (due to lots of patriotic and hopeful bets) England. So that's third favourites.Same four teams led the odds in April 2010. I think it's fair to describe Argentina as being one of the favourites to win the tournament, even if some people were more pessimistic about their chances than others. If you were among these people, SSK, take a bow for you analytical nous.

[Bored Of Education]

Germany-Spain final thread.

Argentina were one of the teams that I wanted to win at the start of the tournament but that was more in hope than judgement from before the tournament started. Indeed, that part-pessimism was drawn mostly from here, if I remember rightly, possibly from Sam?

[Seven Saxon Kings]

Germany-Spain final thread.

Like England getting patriotic money behind them, they had money behind them from people who thought that because Messi is in the team, they must have a chance of winning. People following the game more closely knew otherwise, and it hardly needed analytical nous to know that a team with an idiotic coach and Jonas Gutierrez at right back wasn't going to win the World Cup.

A quick google reveals that in December 2009, Ladbrokes had Argentina joint 4th favourites, behind Spain, Brazil and (due to lots of patriotic and hopeful bets) England. So that's third favourites.

Fourth favourites. You can't have it both ways, either you base it on where punters' money is going and they were fourth favourites, or you base it on what pundits were saying and they had no chance. You can't ignore patriotic money on England but accept people betting on Argentina just because of having famous players, as they were both equally stupid.

[G-Man]

Germany-Spain final thread.

What a peculiar man you are. People bet on England because, hey, you might as well put a few quid on your favourite team to make it interesting. Nothing idiotic about that. But in a list of odds at an English bookies, England's inclusion in the top 3 would be skewed.

Betting on a team with famous players surely makes sense: why wouldn't a team with such a wealth of talent as Argentina had be considered to be among the favourites.

I do congratulate you on your advanced analytical skills and profound footballing knowledge which clearly surpasses that of most observers of international football. Well done.

[Mr Beast]

Germany-Spain final thread.

Sorry G.Man but putting money on your favourite team is pure mug punting and the bookmakers love this type of customer. Gambling and supporting are two completely different activities.