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    Cricket History Question

    A random fact just caught my eye. Sussex County won its first county Championship in 2003. The club has existed since 1839 and the game has roots in the area all the way back to the Saxon invasion.

    So that means 144 years of futility. One-hundred-and-forty-four. That makes the Cubs fans look like whiners.

    Is that true? Did they really win nothing in 144 years? Even a blind squirrel and a broken clock and all of that...

    #2
    Cricket History Question

    The more eamazing (and oft-quoted) statistic is that Lancashire haven't won the championship outright sonce 1934, despite being one of the largest and richest counties.

    As for Sussex, the championship didn't actually exist in the early years and the top county was awarded, not won. By that system, Sussex were 3 times best county in the 1840s and 1850s.

    They've also won the biggest one-day tournament 5 times (in 1963, 1964, 1978, 1986, 2006), and the one day league.

    So it's not been that bad!

    Comment


      #3
      Cricket History Question

      There's also the fact that there are four first class counties which have never won the official County Championship: Durham, Gloucestershire, Northamptonshire and Somerset (though Durham only joined in 1992 and Northamptonshire in 1905).

      It's also interesting that despite their long drought, Sussex have never finished last (a position with which the Cubs have extensive familiarity).

      Comment


        #4
        Cricket History Question

        Somerset have been trying to win the County Championship since 1882 without any success so far. I think this may be because, rather than in spite of, the fact that they get more sunshine than the other counties, so finish a higher proportion of games (tending to, er, lose them).

        Comment


          #5
          Cricket History Question

          Well, if none of those teams have won, who is winning? There aren't that many counties in Britain.

          Is one-day the same as that 20/20 thing?

          Comment


            #6
            Cricket History Question

            Yorkshire, Lancashire and Surrey won almost all the County Championships between them until the 1960s (Surrey were the "Yankees" of their time, winning every title from 1952 to 1958). Since then, Middlesex and Essex were the dominant counties of the 70s and 80s, and Warwickshire and Sussex have each won 3 titles since 1990.

            There are various formats of one-day cricket, the oldest and most respected competition is played at 50 overs per side, like the international World Cup format, and is a knock-out in its later stages leading to a final at Lord's. There's also a one-day league (which is a separate competition altogether) which used to be the "Sunday League", where matches are 40 overs per side (shorter precisely because the games used to be played on Sundays, and everyone was supposed to be at church in the morning).

            The wild and frantic runfest 20-20 version is the most recent innovation, and is a shortened version specifically designed to be able to be played under floodlights, for an evening (post-work) audience. It's undoubtedly proved popular, and will almost certainly mean the counties at some point ditching the 40-over league (which is already an anachronism) and replacing those fixtures with more of the 20-20 stuff.

            Comment


              #7
              Cricket History Question

              County Championship, most titles:

              * Yorkshire 31
              * Surrey 19
              * Middlesex 12
              * Lancashire 8
              * Kent 7
              * Essex 6
              * Warwickshire 6
              * Nottinghamshire 5
              * Worcestershire 5
              * Glamorgan 3
              * Leicestershire 3
              * Sussex 3
              * Hampshire 2
              * Derbyshire 1

              Those top four probably have the biggest populations to draw on: traditionally, teams were composed of players born within the county. I would add Kent to what Rogin said about the 1970s.

              Wooden spoons:

              * Derbyshire 14
              * Somerset 12
              * Northamptonshire 11
              * Glamorgan 10
              * Nottinghamshire 8
              * Sussex 8
              * Gloucestershire 7
              * Leicestershire 7
              * Worcestershire 6
              * Durham 5
              * Hampshire 5
              * Warwickshire 3
              * Essex 2
              * Kent 2
              * Yorkshire 1

              Comment


                #8
                Cricket History Question

                Yorkshire's 31 championships include a whole one since I've been following cricket. And then they went and got relegated straight after it...

                Comment


                  #9
                  Cricket History Question

                  Essex's six titles all came within a 13-year period, and all during my cricket-supporting lifetime. Not that there's any likelihood of any others any time soon mind.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Cricket History Question

                    Oi, I'm claiming a few of unofficial titles for Gloucs. Wisden (1996) gives us 3 of those. Our best ever player was 42 when the official championship started.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Cricket History Question

                      How do you get elected to the County Championship? I noticed only recently that Durham had made it and it's unique in our lifetimes. Does the entire team have to go down on the Chairman of the MCC or something?

                      Also has anyone ever been booted out? I mean Middlesex isn't even a county anymore is it, so shouldn't they be gone?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Cricket History Question

                        And, after Ireland's success at the last World Cup, why does there seem to be no pressure or desire for a Welsh international side? I presume at least half of the Glamorgan side (who are already first-class cricketers) would qualify for one?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Cricket History Question

                          "Also has anyone ever been booted out? I mean Middlesex isn't even a county anymore is it, so shouldn't they be gone?"

                          When the Tories re-arranged the county lines in the '70's the cricket authorities agreed to disagree with the rest of the country and continue with the old county borders. So you were left with anomalies like Yorkshire only playing players who were real Yorkshiremen - suddenly having half the team from outside Yorkshire, and of course Edgbaston is no longer in Warwickshire.

                          **

                          There have been some rumblings about establishing a Welsh team, I read something about it on Cricinfo.

                          The whole idea of cricket nationality is in a mess. Rumour here has it that the Netherlands is going to lose it's star player, the South African born Ryan ten Doeschaete, because he is going to be playing for England 'A' this summer.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Cricket History Question

                            Middle middle middle
                            Sex sex sex.

                            If Middlesex had to go then Surrey would also be halved (and lose the Oval), and Kent & Essex would have large bits chopped off.

                            A Greater London county would be superb, being able to alternate between Lords & the Oval, and with a huge potential fan base.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Cricket History Question

                              I wouldn't agree that not being champion county equals "futility". Without getting all Spirit Of The Game on your ass, that does seem a bit too Vince Lombardi for cricket.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Cricket History Question

                                Durham's elevation (in 1992) was an anomaly really, born, I suppose of success in the Minor Counties championship and having impressive development plans. I don't mean that unkindly because they've produced some good players and have contributed plenty, after a terrible start where they couldn't attract good enough experienced players.

                                But most people would agree there are too many counties,even if there is no appetite to cull. If one went bankrupt, it's unlikely it would be replaced. And also, the gap between minor and first class counties is enormous. The one time they met, in the first round of the knock out cup, the first class side usually won by about 200 runs. Not bad in a 60 over game. The minor counties aren't even in the competition now. How about a comeback under 20-20? They might win a few of those.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Cricket History Question

                                  A Greater London county would be superb, being able to alternate between Lords & the Oval, and with a huge potential fan base
                                  It would be a shame to lose the 'Sex derbies. Although we could always go to Chelmsford or Hove, I suppose.

                                  And also, the gap between minor and first class counties is enormous...[but]how about a comeback under 20-20? They might win a few of those
                                  Indeed. As four innings cricket's decline becomes more marked, that gap may narrow. As I'll never tire of reminding you all, Strabane had more players in the World Cup's serious stages than India and Pakistan combined. Hey!

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Cricket History Question

                                    'Unofficial' titles, according to the web's most reliable source (although I imagine the info has been plucked from Wisden):

                                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champion_County

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Cricket History Question

                                      I'm not sure a greater London county would necessarily work, and would erode the counties around them and the blurred interlinking between each part of London and its overspill county. In sporting-cultural terms there's never been that much of a contigious London identity. I don't want to tramp over to south-west London to watch my 'county' team, I just want my existing one to start playing in east London again.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Cricket History Question

                                        Yeah, that does seem silly. Does Ilford/Leyton even get one day games?

                                        Assuming no new first class teams, I wonder if a London team could be formed to play in 20-20, perhaps based at the wonderfully sited Artillery Ground near Moorgate? If the demand for test match tickets in London is anything to go by, then there's scope for it.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Cricket History Question

                                          A Greater London county would be superb
                                          A certain Gloucestershire doctor would be inclined to agree with you.

                                          I don't, though.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Cricket History Question

                                            Rogin the Armchair Fan wrote:
                                            And, after Ireland's success at the last World Cup, why does there seem to be no pressure or desire for a Welsh international side? I presume at least half of the Glamorgan side (who are already first-class cricketers) would qualify for one?
                                            there is a 'wales' that plays at minor counties level

                                            as for the first class game, our international team is actually england and wales, representing, as we do, the england and wales cricket board

                                            i believe some people refer to them as simply england

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Cricket History Question

                                              My idea that Minor Counties are sleeping giants to be aroused by 20-20 is looking a bit far fetched. According to wikipedia:

                                              "[Herefordshire] play matches around the county at Brockhampton, Colwall, Eastnor, Kington, and the Luctonians club at Kingsland near Leominster"

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Cricket History Question

                                                Welcome pengedragon.

                                                In previous discussions of the subject, it has been noted just how unusual the "England and Wales" combination in cricket is.

                                                I would not be terribly surprised if 20-20 is the only form of one day cricket being played professionally in five years time.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Cricket History Question

                                                  neither would i

                                                  on a slightly related point, why dont the counties just play 20, 50 and first class cricket. in other words ditch the pro 40, it's neither one thing nor the other

                                                  Comment

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