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  • David Agnew
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    There isn't any, for the reasons I stated above - they all used super-middle as a stepping stone to light-heavy, or bypassed it altogether. He's bypassed them by not moving up until the age of 36.

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  • Bordeaux Education
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    IMO Calzaghe is a typical Frank Warren boxer who builds up a big rep fighting in his home town knocking over a succession of bums whilst ignoring the true talent in their division.
    Genuine question - who is the "true talent" at super-middle that Calzaghe has wilfully ignored?

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  • pengedragon
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    i watched the hbo coverage last night and looking at that calzaghe won a lot more comfortably, john rawling has a lot to answer for

    probably an idea to watch a fight with no commentary and score it yourself, they can put quite a twist on things these commentators

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  • David Agnew
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    Tactical Genius wrote:
    "Actually, to phrase my question differently and in a simpler fashion, where exactly has Calzaghe been over-rated and by whom?"

    The british press over the last few days.
    Calzaghe wins controversially despite not apaearing to even wobble a well over the hill Hopkins and people are asking if he is the greatest ever british Boxer.
    Years? Bunce, McGuigan and the like have been saying for years that he doesn't get the recognition he deserves.

    Tactical Genius wrote:
    IMO Calzaghe is a typical Frank Warren boxer who builds up a big rep fighting in his home town knocking over a succession of bums whilst ignoring the true talent in their division.
    That's more a case of Warren looking after his interests, and not wanting the likes of Finkel, and before him King taking a cut or taking over "his" fighters though, isn't it?

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  • Tactical Genius
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    "Actually, to phrase my question differently and in a simpler fashion, where exactly has Calzaghe been over-rated and by whom?"

    The british press over the last few days.
    Calzaghe wins controversially despite not apaearing to even wobble a well over the hill Hopkins and people are asking if he is the greatest ever british Boxer.

    IMO Calzaghe is a typical Frank Warren boxer who builds up a big rep fighting in his home town knocking over a succession of bums whilst ignoring the true talent in their division.
    Once they step up to true world class the are found wanting.
    Calzhaghe should beat Jones who's victory against a very rotund looking Trinidad should not be taken seriously.

    Joe reminds me of the likes of prince Naseem, Ryan Rhodes, Pele Reid etc who stayed in the comfort zone of easy wins for too long.

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  • Bordeaux Education
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    Actually, to phrase my question differently and in a simpler fashion, where exactly has Calzaghe been over-rated and by whom?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bordeaux Education
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    Why particularly does Calzaghe have to go up a division? Just to get recognition?

    As it happens, I feel that super-middle is probably Calzaghe's natural weight and this step up is a short-term deal.

    I think he himself is going along with your theory by upping a division to gain what seems to be the all-important exposure in America (and all that that brings financially which is probably the crux of the matter).

    There seems to be an obsession with boxers going up divisions so that they get into the better exposed ones which, I feel, is ridiculous.

    As for your last point, again, I am not sure that he has been rated that outlandishly as everyone mentions that, during his time as champion, it has been a pretty poor division.

    He has been hyped by the Welsh press somewhat (but they hype anything Welsh) but I haven't seen much else in any serious coverage. Bear in mind, I don't read many newspapers and Radio 4's boxing coverage isn't great.

    Bear in mind, also, that I prefer amatuer boxing as the convoluted machination in the pro game turn me off a great deal.

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  • David Agnew
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    Bored Of The Dance wrote:
    Having said that, he can only beat who has been put in front of him. As you say, there is no-one hiding and he has hidden from no-one. I take your point about him moving up sooner but, now he has, he has started to answer his criticisms (Stay at Home Joe etc) and looks like he is fighting Roy Jones next.
    But by taking the safe route of staying at super-middle, and being boxing's equivalent of the world's tallest dwarf, there has been no-one for him to fight. Jones used the division as a stepping stone to light heavy, so did Toney and Barkley. Hopkins skipped the division altogether. Calzaghe has waited until he is 36, when the division's only decent fighters are older. Jones' legs went years ago. Trinidad stepped up after being retired two years and was ouclassed by Jones. The only decent fighter under the age of 35 is Chad Dawson, but the word is that Jones is the only fight Calzaghe's interested in.

    Bored Of The Dance wrote:
    I think everyone has been reasonably level-headed about his achievements so far even, by self-aggrandising boxing standards, him. He hasn't been hyped, indeed, to the world at large (seemingly America according to everyone) he has been an unknown force until recently and he is rated fairly as far as I can see.
    He's been an unknown force, because he's stayed in this division. Fighting Manfredo to get name recognition over there is the equivalent of Justin Timberlake duetting with Gareth Gates over here. Certainly in the UK, Calzaghe's gets overrated, because he's a ten year champion, because he's undefeated amd because the division has some sort of legacy because of the Benn-Watson-Eubank fights.

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  • Gangster Octopus
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    Ms Disco's sterling work on this thread has reminded me that it's almost Eurovision time...

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  • Bordeaux Education
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    Sorry, Phoebe, this has moved on somewhat but I was only answering that Calzaghe isn't an over-rated boxer as people seem to be rating him pretty sensibly.

    I can't think of anyone who has said anything more than your quote of "On paper, a boxer with a perfect record after 44 fights, and a champion for 10 years, should be considered one of the all time greats, but the division is a joke. It's a nothing division"

    No-one has been calling hom one of the all-time greats by any means.

    Having said that, he can only beat who has been put in front of him. As you say, there is no-one hiding and he has hidden from no-one. I take your point about him moving up sooner but, now he has, he has started to answer his criticisms (Stay at Home Joe etc) and looks like he is fighting Roy Jones next.

    I think everyone has been reasonably level-headed about his achievements so far even, by self-aggrandising boxing standards, him. He hasn't been hyped, indeed, to the world at large (seemingly America according to everyone) he has been an unknown force until recently and he is rated fairly as far as I can see.

    If you mean he has been over-rated because of the BBC Sports Personality thing, well I think we can discount that ever since they started honouring England footballers that don't win anything and England cricketers that win one game instead of Welsh rugby teams that win 5

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  • rick derris
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    magic

    bed

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  • David Agnew
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    Hopkins is being a really gracious loser here.

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  • David Agnew
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    Genuinely suprised at that, especially the judge who gave it five rounds in Calzaghe's favour. Hopkins controlled the pace, and scored with the cleaner crisper shots, but Vegas judges reward attacking boxers, and they clearly didn't like Hopkins stalling and holding.

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  • wingco
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    All this talk about the "American judges" - I think if this was scripted, it was in favour of Joe.

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  • wingco
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    Calzaghe gets it but I had it a fuck of a lot closer than that.

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  • David Agnew
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    Calzaghe on split decision!

    Judges:

    114-113 BH
    115-112 JC
    116-111 JC

    Leave a comment:


  • David Agnew
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    I score it 117-115 Hopkins, and the Calzaghe camp think they've got it.

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  • David Agnew
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    r12: Hopkins corner slow to clear away. Calzaghe starts with a flourish. He has another go forward, but Hopkins lands another clean right. calzahe sees in the last minute with a flurry. Calzaghe celebrates with seconds left, and punches continue after the bell.

    10-9 Calzaghe

    Ritchie Woodhall has 115-113 Calzaghe
    McGuigan has 115-113 Calzaghe
    John Rawlings has it level.

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  • David Agnew
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    r11: Calzaghe needs at least a knockdown. Good shots from Calzaghe, but is caught by a sneaky right. Calzaghe forces Hopkins into both corners, the second time Hopkins claims a lowblow, but the referee says box on. Calzaghe then cathce Hopkins with his best three shots of thenight.

    10-9 Calzaghe.

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  • David Agnew
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    r10: Enzo is saying that Hopkins can be knocked out. An accidental lowblow and a little jiggy showboat from Calzaghe does not go down well with the crowd. Hopkins down on one knee, and the ref calls a timeout. Hopkins stalls for over a minute. Calzaghe gees the crowd up, and the action resumes after two minutes delay. Hopkins now coming forward. Calzaghe unloads, Hopkins retaliates. Like so many rounds, this is tough to score. But Hopkins was stronger after the break.

    10-9 Hopkins.

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  • David Agnew
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    r9: Calzaghe needs to win all four rounds now. Hopkins holding on more than ever, and pacing round the ring, slowing the pace down more. More good exchanges. Great left from Calzaghe. Calzaghe with the better shots.

    10-9 Calzaghe.

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  • David Agnew
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    r8: Calzaghe trying to draw Hopkins in more, Calzaghe gets in with a great left hand, and Hopkins goes on the defensive. Another good left hand is met by a Hopkins flurry. Another good right from Hopkins. A hopkins flurry at the bell catches Calzaghe afgter it's rung. Hopkins on the better shots, Calzaghe on the workrate

    10-10

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  • David Agnew
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    r7: Calzaghe needs to up the workrate, as Hopkins has slowed the pace down. Calzaghe now starts to draw Hopkins on, but Hopkins isn't fooled. Hopkins cathes him with a late right, and Calzaghe is almost down after a right hand and Hopkins uses his head again. A quiet round until the end that Hopkins edges.

    10-9 Hopkins.

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  • rick derris
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    my stream has fucked up

    Leave a comment:


  • David Agnew
    replied
    calzaghe hopkins

    r6: Another good left by Calzaghe is met by Hopkins driving his head into Calzaghe's face, but Cortez breaks them, and lets it go. Another godd right from Hopkins met by a left hook from Calzaghe. Calzaghe launches at the end, and stumbles onto the canvas. The ref doesn't count.

    10-10

    The ref warns both fighters between the rounds.

    Leave a comment:

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