West Indies v England

[Gangster Octopus]

West Indies v England

Just how fucking tedious is Botham?

[ursus arctos]

West Indies v England

He's still talking?
Perhaps he thinks he's batting on the pitch in Barbados.

Did Strauss and Flower really want to declare a few overs before lunch?

[Gangster Octopus]

West Indies v England

Does he ever stop talking? Maybe someone should point out to him his own record as captain...

[Duncan Gardner]

West Indies v England

Medium Wave wrote:

Or perhaps it's a non-issue, afterall, there was almost a result in two of these games

Agreed. Let them play on matting/ asphalt/ concrete/ 3GIastroturf and stop whining. Maybe leaving said pitches uncovered through games to liven things up.

Botham was foaming as usual, but Gnasher, Stewie and the ever more cadaver-like Willis all basically agreed with him.

Strauss suggested in his post match interview with Gower that KP and Baldie's excellent batting before lunch gave England an extra 10 overs- the obvious though very negative implication being that he (Strauss) was only planning to allwo the bowlers 55 overs to bowl the West Indies out.

Where next? England look to have two main problem positions (lack of an adhesive number three and a genuine quick), but maybe more telling is that barring injury the other nine will play through the summer given the county circuit's failure to provide challengers.

West Indies are unlikely to be able to score 500-700 at a freezing Durham. Although snow stopping play might help them out.

[The Purple Cow]

West Indies v England

That's the thing, nobody is better at playing cricket in English conditions than the English.

'Cept all them Kolpaks.

[Eggchaser]

West Indies v England

Anderson is a fucking frustrating bowler. 1 day in 10, world beater. 2 days in 10, absolute garbage. 7 days in 10, lots close calls but ends up with crap figures because he takes 1 for 64 having had no luck.

[Medium Wave]

West Indies v England

Duncan Gardner wrote:

[b]Botham was foaming as usual, but Gnasher, Stewie and the ever more cadaver-like Willis all basically agreed with him.

His prediction of a facile Ashes victory is looking a bit optimistic now.

[A Doctor Speaks]

West Indies v England

Well admit to being very wrong about the series.
Thought the W.Indies had won initially, as a 'blip', but hung on in there well, in the main.

And England's latest theory or excuse is being rubbish in the First or opening tests, as opposed to those which followed. Hmm.

[A Doctor Speaks]

West Indies v England

Duncan Gardner wrote:

Medium Wave wrote:

Or perhaps it's a non-issue, afterall, there was almost a result in two of these games

Agreed. Let them play on matting/ asphalt/ concrete/ 3GIastroturf and stop whining. Maybe leaving said pitches uncovered through games to liven things up.

Where next? England look to have two main problem positions (lack of an adhesive number three and a genuine quick), but maybe more telling is that barring injury the other nine will play through the summer given the county circuit's failure to provide challengers.

What difference does the wicket make?
Given they can play in the main, only on grass. And by definition, should be in theory the same for both teams.
(You're hardly going to get any form of even the worst club cricket played on concrete or tarmac, FFS.).

Their main English problem is bowlers not taking enough wickets, certain batsmen being inconsistent and conceding too many extras.

Apart from that, they're fine.

[The Purple Cow]

West Indies v England

"What difference does the wicket make?
Given they can play in the main, only on grass. And by definition, should be in theory the same for both teams."

I'm guessing you don't know a lot about cricket.

[ursus arctos]

West Indies v England

This is genuinely ridiculous.

[A Doctor Speaks]

West Indies v England

The Purple Cow wrote:

"What difference does the wicket make?
Given they can play in the main, only on grass. And by definition, should be in theory the same for both teams."

I'm guessing you don't know a lot about cricket.

Actually was talking about senior cricket;does it often use concrete/tarmac wickets? I think not?

[The Purple Cow]

West Indies v England

Ah, you've obviously never played cricket in Holland.

Until you've batted on Almere C.C.'s strip which consists of a thin green carpet on a concrete base, you cannot know what the phrase 'Steepling bounce' actually means.

[Guest]

West Indies v England

I think that is probably what WI deserve, although the offer of the light in the first place seems a total nonsense. No doubt the ICC are too busy thinking up more harebrained referral schemes to fix this aspect of the game, but its hard to think of anything more simple that would immediately improve the sport.

Re. the Test series, I thought Strauss' batting was quite remarkable. Since his reinstatement, up to this series, he has been playing the most horrendous cricket; I should think at least three-quarters of his runs have been coming between slip and point, and his foot movement has been non-existent. Yet now - all of a sudden - he seems to be playing better even than he did when he first broke into the team. Certainly, on the form he displayed in the Caribbean, he justifies his place in the test XI, which has not been the case for some time. I'm not sure whether he has simply been playing himself back into form for, well, a couple of years, or whether - as captain - he felt a need to play more positively, but the improvement is certainly welcome. That said, I am a little nervous, on his behalf, as to how he will fair facing an accurate bowler of genuine class (Stuart Clark), and whether the old flaws in technique will resurface.

However, while his batting was excellent, his captaincy remains abysmal. He has been given the job because he is the last man standing, and a general Good Man To Have Around, but he is chiefly responsible for England losing the series. While Taylor's spell put WI in a commanding position, Strauss' imbecilic decision to employ a nightwatchmen ensured that England would not be able to win it. His conservatism even in the Fifth Test was similarly dispiriting. It is very hard to see how England are going to evolve into a top-level team - regardless of players - with leadership as lacklustre as this.

In other news, delighted to see Vaughan rack up a ton against Surrey. Shah, who is not a 3 to start with, has certainly failed to take his opportunity (I'd probably keep him in for at least one Test in England), and the selectors surely cannot simply hand back to Bell his place in the side. That would seem to leave (an in-form) Vaughan as the top choice to bat 3, although he has always been a better opener, and I would be slightly concerned about how he would handle being captained by Strauss. Still, unless Key is given a shot at batting there, it is hard to see what other options the selectors have.

[Guest]

West Indies v England

Speaking as someone who is 6'6", may I say that concrete strips are great.

[A Doctor Speaks]

West Indies v England

Fair enough, in places where it's hard to perhaps maintain a full size cricket square.

But in mainstream international cricket, has there ever been a concrete/tarmac wicket?
Surely not?

[Andy C]

West Indies v England

Thing is, grass is not just grass. There are many factors: the sparesness or the density of the grass, the way it's cut, the characteristics of the soil, the evenness of the surface, the moistness, cracks in the surface. Just to name a few. So there are immense differences in the behaviour of wickets in different parts of the world, from ground to ground and even between wickets on the same ground. And then the characteristics of a wicket will change during the course of a match, as a result of atmospheric conditions, the way the wicket is rolled between wickets, and because of the wear and tear of play. It isn't the same for both sides, because they're not using the same wicket at the same time. This is why, for one thing, it's so difficult to make a big score in the fourth innings of a test match. It's also a reason why different types of bowlers are effective at different times.

[The Purple Cow]

West Indies v England

"Speaking as someone who is 6'6", may I say that concrete strips are great."

Yes I believe you, but at C.C. Almere I was once hit on the visor by an off-spinner. Insane.

**

Back in the '70's and '80's West Indian groundsmen used to jack up their heavy rollers, and literally spin the rollers on the square. This gave a rock-hard, glassy, appearance to the strip. Michael Holding used to tell the groundsmen that he wouldn't bowl on their track if he couldn't comb his hair in the reflection. This hard reflective surface was probably every bit as hard as concrete, and facilitated the steepling bounce that the Windies pace-men needed.

There was also the track at Perth W.A. Which had been laid on a very hard clay base. The square was relaid in the early 1990's, and the tracks lost a lot of their hardness and their speed. However, it is rumored that the original source of the 1930's clay has been found, and will be re-introduced to the ground making Perth once again the fastest square in the world.

[Eggchaser]

West Indies v England

Latest one dayer on the go if it stops raining, I see. Pea Heart out, Incredible Limping Man in.

[Gangster Octopus]

West Indies v England

We're not getting any better; currently 42-4...

[E10 Rifle]

West Indies v England

I'm liking this pitch. A lot. Cricket needs more of them.

[The Purple Cow]

West Indies v England

43 - 5.

Bumble desperately trying to defend Flintoff.

[Eggchaser]

West Indies v England

Flintoff's a totally busted flush, isn't he?

[Guest]

West Indies v England

Infuriating twats.

Prior plays a practice shot to get himself out.

I might flog my Edgbaston Ashes tickets at this rate.

[Guest]

West Indies v England

8 gone for 68