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    Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

    So, not quite six months after taking the captaincy, Pietersen's off. And Moores too, apparently.

    With West Indies and the Ashes coming, is this a spectacular self-inflicted cock-up or ... there doesn't seem to be an or.

    #2
    Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

    Dropped as captain or altogether?

    And why?

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      #3
      Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

      I'm sure one of OTF's cricketers could answer more fully, but basically the ECB didn't want to be seen to be caving in to player power by just getting rid of Moores, so they got rid of both.

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        #4
        Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

        Not a surprise that KP has gone. For all the credit he takes for the second half of the Indian tour, he's in charge on the field. Not of selection and certainly not coach recruitment. Did he expect Lord's to treat him like Grace or the Nawab of Pataudi?

        Moores hasn't really improved thne side- they beat the weaker New Zealand and West Indies, but lost to India twice, the Lanka and South Africa. As England are so obsessed by the Ashes cycle, it's logical that he goes now to give the new guy the Carib leg as a warm up.

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          #5
          Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

          He's resigned as captain.

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            #6
            Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

            Or has he...

            SSN now saying there are 'reports' that he resigned. Reports from Sky Sports News, presumably.

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              #7
              Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

              Fucking ECB.

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                #8
                Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                Cometh the hour, cometh the big man:

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                  #9
                  Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                  he's in charge on the field. Not of selection and certainly not coach recruitment
                  Australian captains have always had a really big say in selection. Hasn't done them any harm over the last 20 or so years.
                  Rampant ECB twattery.

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                    #10
                    Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                    This has back-fired spectacularly on Michael Vaughan - rumor is that he was the mastermind behind Pietersen's alleged 'hissy-fit'.

                    In the final analysis though, Pietersen was undone by his senior players who failed to back him when consulted this week. Particularly Freddy and Harmi who are widely known to dislike K.P. intensely.

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                      #11
                      Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                      Duncan Gardner wrote:
                      Did he expect Lord's to treat him like Grace or the Nawab of Pataudi?
                      I think he might well have done.

                      If memory serves the Aussies have barely changed their side bar for injury or retirement or rests for tours of Bangladesh etc over the past 12-15 years. This may be why there are so many very very good Australians now at the end of their careers (Stuart Law is perhaps one of the best examples)with barely a test to their name or excellent players like Stuart Clark and Michael Hussey that have had to wait a long long time for a chance.

                      When fit, it's not exactly been hard to choose their team until recently, which may go someway to explain some of their current travails.

                      I would have liked Pietersen to have a real go at captaincy, but being a potentially great player isn't enough, and there are reports that he does not have the full backing of the dressing room,either, which may reflect ill on all parties.

                      While my debt to Moores as a long-time Sussex member is big, he hasn't done enough to warrant remaining in his position, sadly, though there appears to be a dearth of options?

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                        #12
                        Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                        My long-term ideal solution would be Robert Key as captain and Tom Moody as coach. I still think you need one captain for one-dayers and tests, which rules out Strauss.

                        I suspect for the up-coming series,they will offer Flower and Strauss the jobs on an interim basis. Flower is well-liked even though he hasn't helped England bat better, and Strauss is a 'safe pair of hands' (hypothetically, if not literally) - but really it's anyone's guess what happens after that.

                        **

                        I think the England team captain should be on the selection committee, though NOT the team coach because of the obvious conflicts of interest that could arise.

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                          #13
                          Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                          Pietersen wasn't undone by his senior colleagues; he was undone by the cretinous incompetence of the ECB. Moores should have been warned about his position after the series loss to India and removed from it after the piss-poor surrender to an uninspiring (and uninspired) SA. Losing two winnable series at home should never be acceptable, add to that constant conflict over training methods, risible selection decisions (Darren Fucking Pattinson, anyone?), and consistent ODI embarrassment, and we should have seen the removal of Moores (and Miller, for that matter) prior to the India tour. Whatever Moores' undoubted achievements at a county level, he's been a total failure at the highest form of the game. His appointment - hurried into the job by his best friend in order to justify the ECB elite coaching programme - was always rather dubious; now England are going to find themselves in total chaos mere months before an opportunity to retake the Ashes from the weakest Australian team in recent memory. Factor in the total absence of plausible alternatives to KP as captain, and this is a clusterfuck truly worthy of the concatenation of incompetence that is the administration of the game in England.

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                            #14
                            Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                            The ECB must be run by Australians. It seems hard to believe the body that runs English cricket could contrive an either-he-goes-or-I-do situation that ended with both parties going.

                            I thought his appointment as captain was an odd one. His shrugging, "that's the way I am" refusal to bat more cautiously when the situation demanded it made him seem a peculiarly self-centred candidate for a team leader. Whatever the opinion of him in that respect, though, the possibility of Pietersen (Test average, just over 50) walking for good out of an already fairly flimsy middle order is a grim one.

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                              #15
                              Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                              I think Strauss was always a plausible alternative to Pietersen.

                              Otherwise, good rant Raskers.

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                                #16
                                Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                                Strauss wouldn't even be in my Test XI, let alone as skipper. He seems to be considered a reasonable candidate because - and only because - he's an opening batsman. Certainly, when he has captained England in the past, I've not noticed anything about him that indicates he would be more than merely average. Test captaincy is a difficult thing; you can have a thoroughly unimaginative captain and still be very successful (e.g. Ponting) but you need a good team; but a good captain can make a decent team better (e.g. Fleming) and a great captain can make a good team great (e.g. Vaughan). I don't see any evidence that Strauss has the ability to rise above the ordinary, which KP certainly does. (A Strauss captaincy also re-opens the problem of a split Test/ODI captaincy.)

                                Fucking ECB. Fucking useless fucking committee-bound cunts. For fuck's sake, they STILL haven't called a fucking press conference to confirm who they have or have not fucking fired. Fuckers.

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                                  #17
                                  Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                                  But it's generally rumoured that KP doesn't get on, personally, with quite a lot of other players in the team - notably the Flintoff/Harmison axis. If KP can't foster the sort of togetherness that Vaughan and Hussain did, then that's a big negative against him.

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                                    #18
                                    Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                                    Pietersen's captaincy should have been questioned after the first test in India anyway. A whole day to bowl India out, while they're chasing over 370 on a deteriorating pitch, and he loses by 6 wickets.

                                    It doesn't really matter what role you define for the captain in that situation - geeing up and motivating the bowlers, making bold field placement decisions, switching the bowling order around becuase you've done your homework on how to get certain batsmen out - whatever "it" is, that wasn't it.

                                    Let him stick to smashing centuries off 60 balls, and sledging Aussie bowlers while at the non-strikers' end, which is what he's good at. Allowing the opposition to slam over 350 runs in the last innings of a test match with barely so much as a whimper in response isn't what we need this year against the Australians.

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                                      #19
                                      Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                                      KP getting on, or otherwise, with other players is nothing to do with Moores' position as coach, and there's been no suggestion that - however bad they are - they're so bad that he is unable to function as captain. Moreover, KP's personality and personal relationships are nothing new - they were known when he was appointed captain. KP has been fired because he complained about Moores - that is the sole reason. And he should not have had to have complained about Moores, because Moores should have been fired months ago. Now we have a publicly fractured squad, a new captain whose place in the team is questionable, and yet further confirmation that the same morons who handed an Ashes test to Cardiff, think that its reasonable for selectors to pick Pattinson, and believe that, somehow, 30 minutes of terrestrial highlights on Channel Five are a fair exchange for live free-to-air Test cricket, will stop at nothing to win back their title of Least Competent Sports Governing Body.

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                                        #20
                                        Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                                        Yay! Yay! and thrice Yay!

                                        (Now fuck off back to your own country and go back to acting the twat in Pietermaritzburg where you fucking belong you boorish ignorant cunt)

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                                          #21
                                          Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                                          Ha, on Sky News, Kate Burley asked the cricket reporter whether KP might now turn out for South Africa. For all his talent, no thanks. Even if that was possible, which I doubt.

                                          piss-poor surrender to an uninspiring (and uninspired) SA
                                          Did a South African fuck a girlfriend of yours, Rasko?

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                                            #22
                                            Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                                            hobbes wrote:
                                            Australian captains have always had a really big say in selection. Hasn't done them any harm over the last 20 or so years.
                                            Rampant ECB twattery
                                            I think having three or four all-time great players was probably more influential than Punter, Taylor or Waugh's say in selection meetings?

                                            The Purple Cow wrote:
                                            I think the England team captain should be on the selection committee, though NOT the team coach because of the obvious conflicts of interest that could arise
                                            Aren't there also conflicts having the captain as a selector? I'm not sure of the best way to organise this- if the selectors pick the team on tour, you effectively have Ashley Giles or whoever getting a month's holiday with little day-to-day responsibility?

                                            Raskolnikov wrote:
                                            Moores should have been warned about his position after the series loss to India and removed from it after the piss-poor surrender to an uninspiring (and uninspired) SA
                                            You're a hard man to please Rasko. That 'warning' would have been less than six months into the job, and after he'd beaten an admittedly poor West Indies in the tests. He'd have had barely longer than Paul Ince before that vote of confidence...

                                            yet further confirmation that the same morons who handed an Ashes test to Cardiff
                                            While I can see good arguments against a Cardiff test (Sophia Gardens is too small, Glamorgan lack experience of organising big games, local politicos want it as a vanity project etc.), why exactly is this moronic? Is it worse than Durham or Southampton?

                                            Guy Potger wrote:
                                            Now fuck off back to your own country and go back to acting the twat in Pietermaritzburg where you fucking belong you boorish ignorant cunt
                                            Your girlfriend too?

                                            I visted PM on holiday as a kid. It was quite pleasant.

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                                              #23
                                              Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                                              K.P. was doing very well as England captain. It's a steep learning curve, and he was showing every sign of being a quick learner. He was also smart enough to know what he wasn't smart enough to know - which I'm guessing was why he wanted Vaughan on the tour.

                                              Like Naz I presumed that he was given the captain's job precisely because he was the type of guy he is. Abrasive, uncompromising, and in-yer-face. There are a fair number if characters in and around the England set-up that need that kind of confrontation - there are a lot of passengers, happy with the comfort of high-paid mediocrity. This is why the ECB's alleged surprise at Pietersen's ability to piss people off is so baffling.

                                              Surely that is exactly why he got the job?

                                              **

                                              The entire coaching staff are a waste of space, they should have been held accountable for the lack of progress long before now, which is what I mean about comfortable mediocrity. International cricket is a tough old arena, coaches need to demonstrate progress or move on. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

                                              Tom Moody - we need you buddy, though I wouldn't blame you if you told the CB to fuck off.

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                                                #24
                                                Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                                                Nasser's been pretty critical of Pietersen to be fair. Hussain may have been a stroppy fucker himself but he was rather more canny at knowing how to get what he wants than KP seems to have been.

                                                And being really cynical, one can't help but reflect on how this has done Pietersen's IPL ambitions no harm.

                                                That said, all the criticisms made of the coaching set-up and ECB on this thread are still bang on. I don't think a more comprehensively effective job could possibly have done of squandering the progress made in the first half of this decade than they have, post-2005

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                                                  #25
                                                  Pietersen out for 5 and a bit

                                                  Bah, I forgot to mention Panesar's total lack of progress in my rant(s). One more strike.

                                                  DG, the problem I have with Cardiff being chosen is that (a) it's Cardiff's first test ever and (b) the selection process the ECB have drawn up for selecting test grounds is, uh, dontsaymoronicdontsaymoronic... less than ideal. The emphasis is heavily skewed towards raising cash for the ECB, and, in particular, the success of the England team at the ground is not even considered. Consequently, Cardiff, despite its lack of experience and awful pitch, was selected ahead of Old Trafford, where England have a cracking record, largely because of the huge amounts of taxpayer money thrown at the ECB.

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