The real thrilla in Manila

[Tactical Genius]

Saw a documentary on this a few days ago talking to many involved in the Ali Frazier fight.
It mainly consisted of interviews with one of Ali's cornermen, as well as Various members of Frazier's team and Frazier himself.

It also spoke of the history of the feud between the two and made Frazier look like a bitter old man (although there was strong mitigating circumstances for this) and Ali a cnut.

The fight was in 120C heat and was probably the most brutal 15 rounds of boxing ever seen.

The most shocking thing was when Frazier was watching the tape of the fight, he just sat there in silence with his eyes glazed over mouth open.

Did anyone else see it?

[Mumpo]

The real thrilla in Manila

Yes. I was going to start a thread. One of the best sporting documentaries I've ever seen. I knew nothing about the Ali-Frazier fights, or the friendship and subsequent enmity between the two men. It was powerful, shocking and desperately sad to watch. Ali emerged, I thought, with little or no credit; but then, the programme made it clear that its sympathies rested largely with Frazier, who had (and continues to be) overshadowed by Ali's reputation and ego.

[Ray de Galles]

The real thrilla in Manila

I've taped the doc to watch at the weekend. Frazier promoted it with this interview which still displayed a real level of enmity towards Ali.

The fight is brutal viewing, I remember getting it on VHS with some partwork magazine of great bouts in the late eighties/early nineties and it was astounding to someone too young to have seen it at the time.

[Tactical Genius]

The real thrilla in Manila

I know a fair bit about the emnity leading up to the first fight. During Ali's ban, Frazier was a big supporter of Ali (mainly in private) giving him moral and financial support.
They both hatched the plan where they would build up this false personal hatred that would force the authorities to overturn the ban and give the public the fight everyone wanted.

It was win-win for everyone, Frazier can legitimise his title by beating Ali, Ali gets his ban overturned and the authorities not only hoped to see Ali get his azz kicked, but the fight would cause divisions in the black community and take the publics attention away from the embarrassing war.

This was why, during the interviews Frazier would laugh whilst Ali mouthed off and taunted him.
I think they fell out after the first fight as Ali stepped up his insults and continued to call Frazier and Uncle Tom and turned black people against Frazier.

I think the third fight had the greatest ever exchange in a boxing match.
During the seventh round during a clich, Ali said to Frazier, "Hey, they said you were finished, that you were washed up?"

"They lied champ, they lied", Frazier responded as he unloaded another bodyshot.

[Ray de Galles]

The real thrilla in Manila

Oh, the vindictiveness around the time of the fights I have always understood , it's just the level of something almost approaching satisfaction from Frazier about Ali's current state which seems out of kilter.

[Tactical Genius]

The real thrilla in Manila

If truth be told many of us would have the same attitude today that Frazier has towards Ali.
Whether we say it in public is a different matter.

[HORN]

The real thrilla in Manila

I seem to remember the fight being shown in the UK a day or so later on the monday night. My poor old dad had done his utmost to avoid the result but counted without his idiot son blurting it out as round one began.

[ursus arctos]

The real thrilla in Manila

I would have looked like Jerry Quarry after one of his many TKOs if I had ever pulled that on my old man . . .

[West End Zuma]

The real thrilla in Manila

Joe Frazier bowed and scraped to nobody, he always struck me as a tremendously proud person so the Uncle Tom taunts were a low blow, unfair and completely wrong. I can only imagine how painful that must have been so I don't blame him for his enmity.

[wingco]

The real thrilla in Manila

Yes, it was Ali who revealed his ugly side in that taunting. One of the more appalling moments in that doc is Ferdie Pacheo, Ali's old doctor who one naively imagined to be a cerebral force of some sort in his corner, unable to see even today that there was anything offensive in the taunting. One of the sweetest moments is Frazier, recalling the "ugly" taunts and bringing his hat to his chest in a mock-wounded, mock-vain gesture and saying, "Please!"

Frazier has somehow contrived to lose all his millions. Holyfield has done the same, it seems. How the fuck . . .

[ursus arctos]

The real thrilla in Manila

Entourages, mainly.

It can take a while for one guy to blow through 10 million USD, but when you have a "staff" of 20+ helping you . . .

[Ray de Galles]

The real thrilla in Manila

That was one of the refreshing things about Calzaghe the other night. He turned up at the after show with his dad and some other obvious family/Team Calzaghe members (including Macarinelli) but no real entourage and not a single security guy.

To be honest he could have done with at least one guy keeping the mob of people away from him but it gives me hope that he's not going to piss his money away.

[Gerontophile]

The real thrilla in Manila

(lots of) offence:

so, Ali flailed around on the ropes, for rounds 1 3 and 5, and then came out knocking the shit out of the wee man, who knackered himself... pretty much like against Foreman.

Wake up chaps, MA is the best fighter ever, no contest (and I am a huge fan/fnarr of Sugar Ray Leonard) (No Mas, my chuffing arse... Hagler? DONE.)

I digress... I saw the doodah on the Tv.

Frazier almost won... and there is nothing, nothing, that makes it any better.

[G-Man]

The real thrilla in Manila

I'd love to see that documentary.

I have a pic of Frasier which once had an autograph on it. It's a press photo which my father had signed. Alas, the writing has faded from the picture.

In one of his letters home from the 1966 world cup, my father wrote that he was about to go and interview the boxer Cassius Clay. He had an autograph from that meeting, but after he died, nobody saw it again. Nor is there any cutting f he interview that I have seen. The newspaper he edited is long defunct.

[TMA]

The real thrilla in Manila

Is this on 4OnDemand, or something? Despite looking forward to it for ages, I completely forgot about it on the Tuesday.

[jason voorhees]

The real thrilla in Manila

Frazier's been a guest on Howard Stern for years, and has always said of Ali's state "who really won ?"

With politics being strange bedfellows, Ali being against the war, but making fun of Frazier's blackness and calling him names that would get a team banned from their own stadium in Champions League formed a bizarre coalition of anti-war protesters and closet racists (we can cheer for Ali, because he's not that black.)

Then Frazier had the support of union construction workers who would go on to become Reagan Democrats and other right-wingers who were for the war, but were cheering for a Philadelphian who used to steal cars as a youth (and probably built up his leg muscles by pushing cars up and down hills as he "stole" them.)

It is what it is. To judge any of these two boxers is highly unproductive. If there was ever a case of walking a mile in moccasins, this was it. There's a reason we're still talking about these titans 30+ years after the fact.

[jason voorhees]

The real thrilla in Manila

He's also not that bitter.