All Or Nothing

[Jorge Porbillas]

... not sure if this should be here or the TV forum but I've just started watching "All Or Nithing: A Season Witth The Arizona Cardinals" on Amazon.

Despite watching American Football on Channel 4 since the 1980s I'be never really had more than a passing interest in NFL. I don't have a team despite once owning a New York Jets shirt, a Minnesotta Vikings bobble hat and a Pittsburgh Steelers baseball cap.

This series has got me well and truly got me hooked but I neeed to be educated on lots of nuances within the game. For example, I have no idea who/how the conferences are configured and whho/why each team's rivals are.

So I'll start with this one ... in All Or Nothing much is made of Cardinals v Rams (St Louis version) ... is it because thhe Cardinals were once St Louis? Or is it something else?

[ursus arctos]

The conferences don't really have a strong rationale.

When they were formed in 1970, the NFC consisted of thirteen traditional NFL clubs, while the AFC consisted of the ten "upstart" AFL teams absorbed in the merger and the three NFL teams that were bribed to play in the other conference (Pittsburgh, the old Cleveland Browns (now the Baltimore Ravens) and the old Baltimore Colts (now the Indianapolis Colts).

I never thought of the Cardinals having a rivalry with the Rams (their original rivals were the Bears, with whom they shared Chicago before moving to St. Louis and then Phoenix), but as two of the teams in a four team division, some degree of rivalry is normal (divisional rivals are the only teams you play both home and away).

[Cal Alamein]

The old NFC East and West puzzled my young brain.

NFC East
Washington (ok)
NYG (sure)
Philly (yes)
Dallas (?)
St. Louis (hmm...)

NFC West
Los Angeles (of course)
San Francisco (certainly)
New Orleans (what?)
Atlanta (c'mon!)

[ursus arctos]

Expansion mucked everything up (as with Atlanta being in the NL West in baseball)

Both the Falcons and Saints were late 60s expansion clubs.

[Jorge Porbillas]

So basically, if Americans don't understand it's not too much to worry about that I don't understand?

[ursus arctos]

There's isn't really anything of substance to understand.

[Ray de Galles]

I have never understood the first thing about leagues split in to conferences in any sport. What it entails or why it is done.

There was speculation that they might bring it in for the Pro12 if they allowed the South African sides in so I may have to try and figure them out.

[Janik]

My take on American sporting competition structure is that it is a legacy of railway travel. When Baseball first turned itself into a national competition that was the primary means of getting about, so having locallised Divisions that teams could play each other in following by national play-offs to decide the champion was a sensible response to the logistical challenges. Obviously the US has move beyond passenger railways as a significant part of their transportation, but as it started that way the particular solution has become ingrained as the way a North American sports league will operate.

[Southport Zeb]

The problem with that theory is that baseball didn't go to localised divisions until the 1960s - before then it had a single table, with each side playing the others the same number of times. There were two leagues but both covered largely the same area.

I think part of the reason that baseball went to divisions was because they reached a number of members that meant there wasn't a way to keep the same number of games without teams playing different numbers of games against different opponents. I think it was also felt that it was easier to try and persuade spectators that a side finishing sixth in the division was closer to contending than a side finishing eleventh or twelfth in a single table.

[ursus arctos]

Zeb is correct here.

[Patrick Thistle]

Do they ever move because Toronto and Baltimore are surely disadvantaged by being in the same division as the Yankees and the Red Sox. Other divisions look on paper a bit easier.

[ursus arctos]

As a general rule, division realignment only comes about with expansion or franchise moves.

Though there are exceptions.

When Jim Crane agreed to buy the Houston Astros in the fall of 2011, it was on the express condition that the club would move from National League West to the American League West (where their cross-state rivals the Texas Rangers play). That resulted in each league having 15 teams, with the result that there is now at least one inter-league match every day.

The AL East teams were quite vocal in support of the introduction of the second "wild card" team, as it opened the possibility for a third place team to make the "postseason". They also enjoy the benefits of frequent matches against the Yankees and Red Sox, who have fans all over the country and are the best away draws in the league.

[Jorge Porbillas]

Maybe this is an easier question to answer. Who should I support? And why?

[ursus arctos]

The Green Bay Packers because they have a storied history, play in by far the smallest "major league market" and are a non-profit entity owned by their fans

[ursus arctos]

And they play in Wales' secondary colours