Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

[diggedy derek]

Cheers for that Sporting.

DR, to be specific, they gave Gutierrez one round and gave her half of another round. That has to go down as one of the most inexplicable scorecards of this bizarre year. Gutierrez was hopelessly outclassed, and it was utterly reckless for her corner to keep sending her out there when she was taking a beating for no reason. Commentators in particular need to get past this "hopefully they can make it to the end of the fight" rubbish. She should have been pulled out to fight another day.

A really good night for women's boxing, though. I think Matchroom deserve a bit of credit for an ambitious bill which, frankly, was more exciting than some of their men's autumn cards.

Kell Brook put up a more than respectable fight for a few rounds last night, but Crawford was much too good.

[Satchmo Distel]

Found this analysis of the first Foreman - Frazier bout via The Guardian. It concentrates mainly on the first round and though I suppose it's old news to the real experts here what was knew to me is how effective Foreman's defensive qualities were, as well as, according to the commentary, his "highly underrated lateral movement". His jabs weren't bad, either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11e2POq3INs

In the Zaire fight, Ali made him look cruder than he really was, partly because Ali psyched him out in the build-up.

[Sporting]

In the Zaire fight, Ali made him look cruder than he really was, partly because Ali psyched him out in the build-up.

The same bloke I linked to before has his take on this too:

[diggedy derek]

That looks well worth a look. I really like Lee Wylie's YouTube videos, and his analysis of The Rumble In the Jungle is really intriguing – busting the myth of the rope-a-dope, as he puts it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1_JW3wnrik

[Satchmo Distel]

Yes, I recall watching a tape of the fight and being surprised how often Ali punched back given that he was supposed to just be soaking it up. He landed a few on Foreman's head in each round IIRC, and clearly he had real power in his combinations; they weren't just for show.

[diggedy derek]

So Fury won't fight again this year, which is tremendously lame. I thought Robert Helenius, Otto Wallin or best of all Michael Hunter could have been an exciting and realistic opponent at short notice.

[Simon G]

Is he the first boxer in history to win two World titles and still never defended either belts?

[diggedy derek]

I couldn't tell you that, but I would not be surprised if there were others. Meanwhile, he hasn't fought at all since 2017, and yet for the WBA:

• Manuel Charr is currently recognized as the organization's 'regular' world champion.^[11] His next defence of this title is scheduled to be against WBA 'interim' champion Trevor Bryan. The WBA has scheduled a purse bid for the bout on March 2, 2020.

[diggedy derek]

DAZN and Matchroom are finally now reporting that Canelo Alvarez and Calum Smith are fighting on 19 December. That's a decent fight.

[diggedy derek]

Dubois versus Joyce fight week. I'm excited for this. Neither is not top three in the UK, possibly not top 15 in the world, but still, two unbeaten fighters, both on the up, meeting in a domestic match-up when neither had to take it. Well excited.

They filmed a great promo clip for this this week, where each of them is punching at different sides of a wall until the bricks start to come loose. It's just a shame it didn't come out a week or so ago, as I'm having some work done at my house, and some of the bricks were so loose and crumbling that I literally could have filmed my own version for kicks.

[Gangster Octopus]

It's definitely more engrossing than MOTD...

[Gangster Octopus]

Joyce is wearing ace shorts...

[Ray de Galles]

Good fight so far, both of them taking an equal number of rounds off the other even if Dubois has a nasty cut troubling him.

Lovely venue, having seen little of the pre-fight hype I initially thought it was at the York Hall but once they panned up I realised it's even more ornate.

[Gangster Octopus]

Well, apparently, that was a surprise.

[Ray de Galles]

Actually, it wasn't even a cut that was troubling him but swelling and perhaps other damage that ended up completely closing the eye. Dubois had to stop when one final punch right on the swelling seemed to completely rob him of vision in the eye.

Really happy that Joyce should get a shot at a really big fight now. Can't quite believe he's 35 but I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise as it was back in 2012 when I saw him break through fighting in the WSB.

[diggedy derek]

Oh man, delighted for Joyce. Defeat there could have had him considering retirement, now he has megafights on the horizon. One of the nice guys of boxing has put himself right in the mix.

[Ray de Galles]

David "I hurt my little toe" Haye ridiculing Dubois for stopping when he'd lost vision in an eye, what a wanker that man still is.

[diggedy derek]

Dubois looked a little bit shaken there. I hope he gets the chance to regain his confidence.

If anyone hasn't read it, Don McRae's profile of the Dubois family in The Guardian is absolutely remarkable. They apparently name Sylvia Dubois among their ancestors, a former slave who beat up her mistress and so won her freedom, and lived to see her 100th birthday.

[Ray de Galles]

It's been confirmed that Dubois suffered a broken eye socket and nerve damage around the eye. It makes the criticism of him even more ridiculous, especially when you factor in the difficulties Kell Brook has suffered since breaking the same bone twice at the hands of Golovkin and Spence. Those injuries have massively impaired, and possibly ended, his career since.

[diggedy derek]

Well said Ray. You would hope that former pros like Haye or Frampton would have check themselves before saying someone quit where there is such doubt swirling about someone's injuries, but I guess that's not what they're paid for.

I hate the taboo there is around 'quitting'. If boxers are to have a way of avoiding serious injury then there has to be some kind of allowance for them taking a long hard look at themselves and finding they can't continue. Amir Khan was a prime example versus Terrance Crawford. Yes, he backed out, but he did so at a stage when serious punishment was heading his way and fast. Being a hero is sometimes a suicide mission. He didn't quit so much as know he was beaten, and there should be no shame in that.

Part of this is down to the toxic obsession, both with the boxers and the industry at large, with unbeaten records. Boxers must be allowed to lose and come back to fight another day. It's better and more realistic for the athletes, and creates richer stories for the sport.

[multipleman78]

Joyce is so likeable. He has absolutely no charisma but his lack of charisma is quite charming. I hope he does really well in 2021.

He must be a pain to fight. He looks so ponderous and doesn't appear to throw anything instantly hurtful but almost everyone who gets in with him falls sooner or later. On top of that, it looks like he can take a massive punch which is imperative if someone so slow is going to get in to hurt the quicker guys.

[diggedy derek]

Agreed. I think his accuracy with that jab is underrated. He didn't break that cheek bone by accident.

He was hilarious in the post-fight interview. When Steve Bunce asked him how he felt when Dubois went down, he just said he was relieved it was all over. "I felt his power, and I'm happy to take those punches... or, preferably, not take those punches".

Maybe they can build up a fight with him and Usyk a bit. It'd be fun. The build up to this fight was impossibly dreary, Frank Warren couldn't sell a gold watch.

[multipleman78]

And Joyce is probably the worst guy to hype a fight. Even when guys throw abuse at him he usually responds with, "huh?" It kinda takes the sting out of the insult.

I think he should be marketed like the Undertaker was in WWF. No talking, allowing a mouth piece to scream and shout beside him on his behalf.

You are so right about his jab. The pundits like to dismiss it and even the replay of the final jab, i think they labelled it routine. It was right on target against an eye already seriously damaged. It may have looked routine but probably caused more damage to Dubois than if he had just been caught with a good hook to the chin and floored.

[diggedy derek]

there will be a crowd at Joshua Pulev in nine days time. 1000 people. Well, you can't accuse Eddie Hearn of overcomplicating things: pricing tiers at 100 (hundred) UKP, 200 UKP, 300, 500, 1000 (one thousand) for the VIPs. Please bring exact amount, no change given, no 50 quid notes, please. Don't let that cash tin out of your sight, son.

[Ray de Galles]

I'm going to the Joshua v Pulev fight. It may be rubbish with that few people in an arena but I'm just happy to see some live boxing and it's the day after my birthday so it's perfect timing.