International Cricket, Autumn/Winter 2022-2023

[MarkF]

I’m enjoying this series very much. The crowds are terrific, clearly delighted to have cricket at home again. The players are playing in great spirits. Smiles on faces.

Pakistan yesterday and today are demonstrating their Jekyll and Hyde perfectly. The batting yesterday was sublime against pretty ropey bowling. It seems the two at the crease are putting up a fight so that should get the crowd going.

I must say I didn’t know Russell Brand was this good a bowler.

[Etienne]

Thailand scored 39 runs in the last 3 overs. Shame they crawled to 63 off the first 17.

[diggedy derek]

I was not particularly bothered about the Pakistan England seven match T20i series before, mostly because seven match series just make me lose the will to live. But this one is set up beautifully now. Great to see Harry Brook get a score.

[diggedy derek]

Great start by England against India, albeit in a dead match, I think. Jhulan Goswami's last ever game, I think. Props.

[diggedy derek]

We have a game, here. g'wan Jhulan!

[Etienne]

Ooh. Controversy.

[diggedy derek]

Oh goodness. Well now.

Well, I have to say, my long-standing position on Mankading is simple – don't back up if you don't want to risk getting out. I'm happy to have Mankading as part of the game.

[Levin]

If you don't want to get run out, don't leave your ground.

[Etienne]

Yeah, I have a dualistic position on this one. My logical position is the one above, and I don't see why batters should get an advantage from backing up too far.
My emotional position is that I don't like it and wish there was another way to stop batters backing up too far.

[Paul S]

A bit like the under arm incident of New Zealand about 40 years ago. So unnecessary and not needed.

[diggedy derek]

I think my position on this has become massively clearer in the one day game era. It you're advancing 30cm every single ball, you are gaining a significant advantage every single ball, in a game which might only have 120-300 balls. If you do that, it's at your own risk.

[diggedy derek]

Is Mankading – aka, being runout before the ball is bowled – equally controversial in other countries?

[Etienne]

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She's not though. If Sharma had delivered normally, Dean would still have been in her ground.

[ursus arctos]

Dean is moving. She's trying to gain ground, which is why you also have this.

[Etienne]

Sure, she's moving when she thinks Sharma has delivered the ball. This is how you are taught to back up in England ( You are supposed to leave the crease at the moment the bowler delivers the ball, which is what would have happened if Sharma hadn't decided she was going to run her out. Now Dean was obviously a bit careless but she wasn't trying to get an unfair advantage.

Now, I don't know if on other balls she had been going to soon and that's what prompted Sharma to do it (I'd expect so) or whether we just have to tell everyone brought up to back up like that that you can't do it anymore, you need to keep your bat grounded and your eyes on the bowler until it leaves their hand.

When I ran a non striker out (or tried to, the umpire refused to give it) when I was playing at school the non striker was halfway down the pitch.

[ursus arctos]

She wouldn't have been out if she had waited for Sharna to deliver the ball

[Etienne]

If Sharma had delivered the ball normally, Dean would still have been in her ground. But Dean wasn't looking, and wandered casually down the pitch assuming that Sharma was going to deliver the ball normally. Of course she wouldn't have been out if she'd waited for Sharma to deliver as (on that ball) Sharma never intended to deliver the ball.

[ursus arctos]

You are assuming a host of things for which there is no evidence(including what Sharma's "normal" delivery is and what her intentions were).

I think the fact that Dean almost immediately congratulated the Indians tells us rather more about her view of this.

[Etienne]

I've watched the video back. I think you are right that her bat had left the crease (by centimetres, but it had left) by the time Sharma would normally have released the ball. But Sharma's intentions are clear, she is watching Dean's bat and nothing else, it was clearly premeditated. Now, if Dean had been leaving her crease too early regularly hence why Sharma was on the look out for it (as I said earlier that it was I would have expected the reason for her doing it to be) then that's totally reasonable from Sharma. But on the delivery itself, I don't think Dean was trying to gain any untoward advantage.

I'm a bit bemused by the "no evidence" thing. It's pretty straightforward to watch a video of Sharma's action and compare it to this delivery. Or indeed watch any other bowler.

I think it reflects very well on Dean that despite being clearly distressed she went to congratulate the Indians (who were comfortably the better team as they had been all series), but I don't think it gives any indication about her view on her dismissal.

[ursus arctos]

I'm "a bit bemused" that when you looked at the "evidence", you changed your conclusion as to whether she was out of her ground,

But it really isn't worth arguing about.

I am intrigued to learn that English coaching appears to reflect a reliance on Mankading being "unsporting". I don't think that is true in the rest of the world and may want to rethink that.

[Etienne]

It's bemusing to you that someone can look again at a video and come to a slightly different conclusion as they did before? OK.

I think you're right that coaching will have to change.

[ursus arctos]

You made a factual assertion

I said that you did so without evidence

You found that "a bit bemusing" because of the possibility of reviewing the video

You reviewed the video and changed your assertion

[Etienne]

It was that judging Sharma's intentions and normal delivery couldn't be done that bemused me, not whether Dean's bat was marginally inside or outside the crease at the moment when she would have delivered.

[ursus arctos]

This is silliy

[San Bernardhinault]

I know I’m in a minority, but I think Mankading is fine. Backing up is an attempt to take an artificial advantage. You’re welcome to try but there has to be potential peril from the action or else you’d shove yourself halfway down the pitch. Maybe watching enough players trying to steal bases or getting picked off in baseball has changed my perspective. I don’t view it as unsporting.

Maybe in test cricket you might want to give a warning, but in limited overs cricket it’s clearly something that should be part of the game.