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Rugby 2020: No Gatland or Schmidt

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    Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post

    Madagascar, purportedly, though I'd love to see their workings for that!
    The claim on wiki cites this article in support,
    Last edited by Ray de Galles; 21-11-2020, 17:33.

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      Originally posted by Sporting View Post
      Is rugby really the national sport in Wales?
      Yes, absolutely.

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        https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-r...national-sport

        ‘I’m not going to beat around the bush,” says Elis James. “I’m from Wales, but I don’t like rugby.” Hang on, Welsh people are meant to love their national game, aren’t they? His documentary, In Wales the Ball is Round (Radio 4), challenges the myth and examines how sport fits into national identity. It’s a multifaceted discussion, full of humour and an understanding of what it’s like to pin your hopes on the Welsh football team.

        In a country touted as obsessed with rugby, James makes a convincing argument that football is at the heart of his culture."
        Last edited by Sporting; 21-11-2020, 17:38.

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          Yeah, that's bollocks from a guy who doesn't like rugby.

          I love both sports and favour football but rugby is Wales' national sport.

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            I'm from the north west of Wales and football was much more popular among young people, both as spectators and players.

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              Yes, that is true of some less populous areas of Wales and football is strong throughout the country.

              However, it doesn't have the central position in the national culture or the local community across larger more populous areas of Wales that rugby has.

              Also, Welsh football's popularity as a spectator sport both nationally and domestically is far more tied to short-term success (and it generally is only short term) than national rugby's is.

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                All true.

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                  This match is so dull that even the fake crowd noise has gone to the fake bar to get some fake pints in.

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                    I would have said a par score for a Wales Second XV against Georgia would have been 25-0 so I'm underwhelmed by that. We'll need to step up mightily to limit the losing margin against England.

                    We'll end the year how we started it, with a game against Italy - except the February game was in a different universe where me, my boy and 70,000 others could go to it.
                    Last edited by Ray de Galles; 21-11-2020, 19:17.

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                      How bad is the injury to Tipuric?

                      I've not seen the game but heard we were poor and worse in the second half.

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                        A very solid thump to the head on landing when his scrum cap had come off earlier in the move (not that it would have mitigated it much).

                        He shouldn't play next week, unfortunately, though the seven day return-to-play protocol may allow him to. The guy who caused it was slightly lucky to not get a red.

                        It was uninspiring stuff and I thought we were a bit shapeless and failed to threaten Georgia's line enough. The players' unfamiliarity with each other and conditions can be blamed for some of that.

                        It wasn't terrible but it didn't achieve much for the team apart from end the losing run. Sheedy, Wainwright and Johnny Williams were the main positives and the scrum was dominant which is always a plus against Georgia.

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                          Just to go back to the question of whether the national sport of Wales is rugby: I agree that it occupies a unique space in Welsh culture, but I would still argue - with absolutely no stats to back me up! - that football has more passive and active followers. I suppose a vague analogy might be paella being one of the national dishes of Spain despite the fact that fast food shifts many more units.

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                            I don't know how relevant this is, but for the sake of indulging some memories....

                            In 1987, our school entered the Llanelli Schools Sevens at under-18 level. I was in the squad. It was a pretty big tournament at the time. I'm reasonably sure that we were the only English state school there, but that there were a few independents. But all except 1-2 max of the Welsh schools were state schools. One of those we played were fantastic. I think we won one of our four group games and we were very happy with that. We watched the final at Stradey Park, and that was two Welsh schools.

                            State school rugby at Under-18 level in England was barely a thing at that time, at least in our region. In Wales, it was clearly still strong in a lot of areas.

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                              By 1987, don't forget, all the old Grammar Schools in England and Wales that hadn't gone full on private were 'state' schools. Mine was one of those - by 1987 a comprehensive school, but very much an old grammar school, with a strong rugby tradition. The school played occasional schools cup matches against the likes of Exeter School and Blundell's which were big days in the calendar, everyone got the afternoon off if they wanted to watch the match.

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                                Yes, though I suspect that tradition lasted that bit longer in certain parts of England* and more so in Wales. I was at school in Shropshire and we were a strong rugby school, but by under-18 level we had barely any games against other state schools and lots against independents (as in out and out fee-paying places). The same with the 2-3 sevens tournaments we played. That Llanelli one was a vivid exception.

                                *Herefordshire, Worcstershire, Gloucestershire and on down to Devon maybe(?)

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                                  Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
                                  By 1987, don't forget, all the old Grammar Schools in England and Wales that hadn't gone full on private were 'state' schools. Mine was one of those - by 1987 a comprehensive school, but very much an old grammar school, with a strong rugby tradition. The school played occasional schools cup matches against the likes of Exeter School and Blundell's which were big days in the calendar, everyone got the afternoon off if they wanted to watch the match.
                                  I went to a 'state' grammar school with admission granted by passing an entry exam if you had already passed your 11+ national exam. This was the late 1960's. The grammar school I went to was Rugby Union only - we were not even allowed to play football at lunch or break times on school fields. We would often often jump the fence with a hidden football and play five a side on a local park.

                                  RU was clearly positioned as the sport of the aspirational elite. It was this kind of uncompromising and unapologetic attitude from the school (this, and so many academic and broad whole school rules in place) which coloured my feelings towards both education and RU for a long time afterwards and still heavily influences my decision making as a teacher.

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                                    I went to a comprehensive in Cambridgeshire and we had to play fucking rugby union and we couldn't play football. I loathed it as did all the other non massive boys. This may go some way to explain why I've never forgiven the sport.

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                                      Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                      I went to a comprehensive in Cambridgeshire and we had to play fucking rugby union and we couldn't play football. I loathed it as did all the other non massive boys. This may go some way to explain why I've never forgiven the sport.
                                      I understand that, and while I can't say quite so emphatically that "I've never forgiven the sport" my school experiences certainly turned me off it for a long time and are certainly the reason I became such a fan of its errant upstart bastard son Rugby League.

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                                        Before professionalism though, Rugby Union was a game where you didn't have to be "massive" to play it (in the backs at least). Indeed some its star performers who everyone wanted to be, like Gareth Edwards or Didier Camberabero, were tiny little fellows. Rugby League, on the other hand, has always been a sport for blokes built like brick shithouses.

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                                          Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
                                          Before professionalism though, Rugby Union was a game where you didn't have to be "massive" to play it (in the backs at least). Indeed some its star performers who everyone wanted to be, like Gareth Edwards or Didier Camberabero, were tiny little fellows. Rugby League, on the other hand, has always been a sport for blokes built like brick shithouses.
                                          As a schoolboy you had to be massive or fast. And if you were fast you did OK as long as you were in a position to outrun the massive ones.
                                          ​​​​

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                                            (It's possible that had I been forced to play league I'd have hated that too)

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                                              From my fourth year (14 onwards) I went to a rather old-fashioned (still had boarders in "School" house) state grammar school in Dorset. We played rugby union in the longer Autumn term and football in the shorter Spring term - I played for school teams in both sports, but much preferred the rugby.

                                              We used to play rugby against quite a few independent schools in the area, a local sixth form college, and also the Bovington Camp Junior Leaders (army team) - that was usually a tough match, although in my senior year we thrashed them. Some of the best times were the post-match teas laid on by the independents in their quasi-country mansions - several notches above the lukewarm tea and stale scones we provided for our guests.

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                                                Concerning international rugby when did the idea of openly celebrating turnovers, big hits or penalties won with fist pumps, hugging and high fives become such an accepted part of the game? It's commonplace now but I'm sure it wasn't there a decade ago. I don't like it much, and certainly see a mass celebration of a knock on pretty disrespectful to the opposition

                                                * I understand that this comes across like a letter to the Telegraph from a retired major from the Home Counties but even a stopped clock etc..
                                                Last edited by Tony C; 22-11-2020, 14:26.

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                                                  That is a bit annoying but what really angers me is players getting in the face of opponents and/or making contact with them (even a tap or a hair ruffle) to gloat after winning a penalty, usually at the breakdown or a set piece. It's rife at all pro levels, not just internationals.

                                                  I've said somewhere recently, perhaps on here but maybe on social media, that it should result in the immediate reversal of the penalty.
                                                  Last edited by Ray de Galles; 22-11-2020, 14:35.

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                                                    Ospreys are using St Helen's to host Treviso right now (it's on Premier Sports 2) and it's delightfully old school :

                                                    https://twitter.com/ospreys/status/1330474398562869250?s=21
                                                    Last edited by Ray de Galles; 22-11-2020, 14:38.

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