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    Starting young versus late bloomers

    Which sports do you more or less have to play from the minute you are able to walk and which can you be a late starter at and still perform well?

    Was just thinking about this - certain sports like gymnastics you peak young and flame out early. Others you can be introduced to in your teen years and excel.

    Of the ones that I know of, there have been more than a few world class basketball players who got introduced to the sport as a teen because some coach saw a tall kid and figured he could make a player out of him/her. Patrick Ewing is always the one that springs to mind.

    This probably applies to Am Football moreso, if you are a big, strong unit and even better if you have some speed and co-ordination I feel like a high school coach could find a place for you on a team even if you have absolutely no experience in the sport. From there you have every chance of progessing into college and the pros.

    Cycling - Froomey had little in the way of formal cycling training/coaching as a yoingster to speak of and just sort of stumbled his way along into the sport. There was an American female cyclist from Utah who got pretty good. She grew up as a footballer and just sort of tried the sport out as a college student. Is this stuff commonplace? I don't know but they are things I have read.

    On the side of sports you have to start young I'd imagine golf is one of those, football is too, especially nowadays that every player has to be comfortable in possession. Ice hockey too must be one of those where 99% of the kids that make the NHL were thrown on the ice as toddlers.

    Anyway, would love to hear your knowledge on the subject and thought this might develop into a good youth sport development thread which is always a fascinating subject.

    #2
    There are studies on this. The only sports that must be focused upon early for long-term success are, as understand it, women’s diving, gymnastics and, figure skating?


    edit. This guy cites that research but doesn’t give a specific citation.

    https://changingthegameproject.com/3...-for-our-kids/


    I suppose some other sports require *starting* fairly early, but not exclusively. Most hockey players learned to skate early, but didn’t focus on hockey until later. Most players also played lacrosse, soccer, baseball or American football. I don’t think anyone could be very good at soccer if they didn’t start building their ball skills early, but they wouldn’t have to necessarily do it exclusively or play lots of organized games. The US has the most expensive, high-pressure, over-organized soccer development system, and yet our national team routinely loses to teams of players who learned on the street.

    Hank Aaron learned to hit by hitting bottle caps with a stick. Do we really believe that he wouldn’t be good in today’s game playing against players who went to expensive camps and all-star tournaments and all that shit?

    Indeed, premature specialization leads to injuries and burnout. We’ve discussed this. All the experts seem to agree on this but parents don’t listen.

    As you say, there are NFL players, especially some who didn’t move to the US until adolescence, who learned the game later. Outside the QB position, its mostly about pure strength, agility and speed. Tampa Hali, ex of the Chiefs, is a good example. He came from Liberia, as I recall.

    But rugby seems to require more skill. If it was just about speed and strength, the US would be a lot better at it.
    Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 29-09-2019, 18:49.

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      #3
      Swimming?

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        #4
        Rebecca Romero took up serious cycling in her 20s and won an Olympic gold.

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          #5
          I think the depth of competition in most major sports is now so intense that the days of a virtual amateur coming along as a late developer have dropped to zero. Certainly in golf, as recently as the 1990s there were only around 60-80 full time touring pros on the European tour, and fields were completed by local club pros and amateurs when the tour showed up. That gave opportunities for the occasional unknown to pick up a big win or high finish and be offered sponsorship to try the main tour on the back of it. Now, not only is the tour closed to the 125 players with a card, but there are a further 150 competing all season long on the second tier challenger tour trying to earn a card for next season on the main tour. In America competition for places on the PGA tour and its second tier Korn Ferry tour is even more intense. It's no surprise that the ones who make it - like the current crop of wunderkinder Spieth, Koepka and Thomas - were breaking local course records in their early teens. But for each of them, there are another dozen who were breaking course records in their early teens who've never even got onto the tour. Thirty years ago every player that good would have made it onto tour at least.

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            #6
            10,000 hours rule and all that. Except it isn't a hard and fast rule, but a rule of thumb. Most of the time, for most fields, it works because only those with a modicum of skill at the field are willing to commit 10,000 hours to practicing it. Someone with no skill gets frustrated and stops way earlier. And equally, those with exceptional skill can manage without.

            One sport notorious for players starting extremely young is Tennis of course. And also for parents having a project to turn their little girls and sometimes boys into champions/money-making machines. But plenty of pro players only started actively training for the sport in their Tennis, which is different from first knocked a ball around with a racquet but surely is the key criterion. Pat Cash was a specific example, aged 12 before he took it up properly. Nick Kyrgios has also stated he only got serious about Tennis aged 14 though he was playing from aged 8. Probably a good thing, think how bored of it he would be now if he had started earlier! I'm sure I heard recently of a WTA top 100 who was into her mid-teens before she touched a racquet, but for the life of me I can't remember who that was. And generally the late starters are also very sporty people who can convert easily.

            There are far more of the other examples of course.


            Originally posted by Sporting View Post
            Rebecca Romero took up serious cycling in her 20s and won an Olympic gold.
            I wonder if it's an easier transition for what I would term the 'human engine' sports, such as cycling, swimming and athletics? Sports where technique matters somewhat but extreme fitness is also absolutely essential.

            Then there is triathlon, of course. And my absolute sporting hero, Chrissie Wellington. She was into her 20s and a graduate before even considering a career as a professional athlete. In any field. But then she tried running, converted to triathlons, specifically Ironman distance. And it turns out she was capable of being not just a decent international standard competitor, or even a world class one, but instead a stratospherically brilliant, Greatest Of All Time contender type.
            https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...man-triathlete

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              #7
              I suspect you're right Janik. Primož Roglič is another recent example in cycling. He was a ski jumper through the juniors with a personal best of 183m, which sounds pretty good. He switched to cycling with a focus on time trials and power. After seven seasons, with four at the top level, he has won the Vuelta and a World Championship silver. Expect him to figure strongly in Tokyo too.

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                #8
                Steve Way famously went from a 20 a day smoker, and 16.5 stone at the age of 33 to finishing 10th in the 2014 Commonwealth Games marathon at the age of 40. He's since gone on to have some success in the ultra marathon scene.

                Saying that, there are differing versions of the back story - it's often said he didn't take up running til he was 33 but he apparently did his first marathon at the age of 32 and ran 3:07 "on three week's training" so he must have had some fitness to begin with.

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                  #9
                  Rugby should be fairly easy for certain types to get into at a late stage.

                  Lanky fellow with a bit of beef? Lock

                  Between 6 foot and 6 foot 4 and built well? Hulk smash type of blindside flanker, or perhaps crash ball centre.

                  Quick? Winger, just catch the ball and run really fast. A guy I knew back in my playing days had never played before but was greasy fast, so he was stuck on the wing in the 3rds/used as the bloke to do the running for the Vets. He picked up the position quickly and was a nailed on first teamer in two years.

                  A lot of hookers have converted from other positions they played as when younger; Tom Youngs of Leicester and formerly England was a centre. Dave Ward, who was released by Quins at the end of last season after many a year with us, was originally a flanker at Cornish Pirates and was a regular source of turnover ball as a result. He even played for us on the flank on several occasions when injury forced our hand.

                  Hilariously, Kyle Sinckler, England tighthead (official stats 1.78m tall, 120 kg), started his career at full back, which is probably why he has really good hands for a position not normally linked to the skillz.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Cesar Rodriguez View Post
                    This probably applies to Am Football moreso, if you are a big, strong unit and even better if you have some speed and co-ordination I feel like a high school coach could find a place for you on a team even if you have absolutely no experience in the sport. From there you have every chance of progessing into college and the pros.
                    There were some track sprinters and hurdlers over the years who went straight into the NFL, but presume they had some experience of playing football in their youth.

                    There seems to be a trend at the moment for colleges recruiting kickers from Australia - and of course there were dire warnings about the NFL scooping up NRL talent when Jarrod Hayne looked like he was getting a break, but that hasn't come to pass (though some individuals are still trying out).


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                      #11
                      None of the pure track athletes who've tried to play football after not doing it before have had much success, as far as I know. But a lot of good players also did track in high school or college.

                      Tony Gonzalez was a great tight end in the NFL after playing basketball in college. Not sure how much football he had played. There's a guy whose name escapes me who played basketball for Penn State, not football, and yet made it onto the Chiefs roster, also as a tight end.

                      Chris Hogan played lacrosse at Penn State and then played a year or two of football as a graduate student at Monmouth and has had a very good NFL career as a receiver for the Patriots and now is winding down with the Panthers. He wasn't even that good of a lacrosse player.

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                        #12
                        I'm sure that I saw something about a US guy who went over to Australia as a student and to play a bit of basketball and is now playing in the AFL.

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                          #13
                          Mason Cox

                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mason_Cox?wprov=sfti1

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                            #14
                            Rowing seems to be able to absorb strong but mature athletes.

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                              #15
                              My understanding is that a lot of the US’ Olympic rowers picked it up in college, but there are some high schools with rowing teams, and I don’t know if the US is especially good at rowing so their may be an advantage to starting early. Or perhaps the advantage is just that high schools with rowing programs can get kids into it before they commit to another sport.

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                                #16
                                In addition to the traditional prep schools and the few public schools with the teams, there are a number of pay to play youth programmes in affluent areas of the country that are important in terms of development (my nephew and niece each spent several years in one before being recruited to row at an Ivy, which was a common path for their teammates).

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                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View Post
                                  Rowing seems to be able to absorb strong but mature athletes.
                                  You just have to be argumentative, surely?

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                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Sporting View Post
                                    Swimming?
                                    That was my first thought. Especially over longer distances.

                                    Ross Moriarty was a full back until his late teens. Then he developed and turned into an 8. Not quite Kyle Sinckler though.

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