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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Australia have replaced Travis Head in the squad with Mitchell Marsh.

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  • diggedy derek
    replied
    E10, you get your wish!

    re: Lyon, Geoff Lemon reckons some of his bravado is because he wanted to fit in. I think most of the reason I disliked him was that unsavoury incident where he deliberately dropped the ball on De Villiers. But he's a classy and clever cricketer, and his rise is a feelgood story it's hard to ignore. These days, I'm happy to see Lyon do well, within reason.

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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Given his other nickname is Garry, I'm not inclined to think the whole process of picking them is that serious.

    The GOAT thing seemed to grow out of quite how undervalued he has been for most of his career, especially with the shadow of Warne looming over him.

    Maybe it's become lost in overuse but that happens, "Sir Ben Stokes" is going to get pretty tiresome quickly and (as you've already said) it's strange to let what other people choose to call him affect your opinion of the man.
    Last edited by Ray de Galles; 10-09-2019, 18:26.

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  • ad hoc
    replied
    Obviously I could be wrong though I don't think I am. For a start, as a joke name "The GOAT" is kind of lacking in that crucial element to jokes, which is to say humour. It's not The King of Spain or The Sledgehammer of Eternal Justice is it?

    I'm prepared to believe my emnity towards the Australian cricket team plays somewhat into my inclination to dislike Lyon, but the GOAT thing AFAIK is something that comes from common or garden Australians with whom I have no beef.

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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Maybe, though while I haven't been for a few years I was a pretty regular visitor in the previous twenty.

    I have to spend more time in England than him, mind.

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  • ursus arctos
    replied
    While I was wondering if it was because ad hoc spends more time there than you do . . .

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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Could it be that's because I have no enmity for Australians? Winky thing.

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  • ad hoc
    replied
    Hmmmmm. My feelings are pretty much the opposite to yours. Like I say, it's not fair of me to hold the actions of others against him and I am conscious of that. But there's a lot of bollocks talked about Lyon and (in my opinion obviously) he's way overrated (which is not to say he's not an excellent bowler)

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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    I really think you're exaggerating the seriousness of the "GOAT" thing, you know.

    If anything, Lyon is generally undervalued for a bowler who's the third best wicket taker in Australia's history (at a time when they have been far less dominant than when Warne and McGrath were taking theirs) and, for instance, has only three English bowlers ahead of his total. He certainly regularly plays down his own achievements.


    Last edited by Ray de Galles; 10-09-2019, 17:14.

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  • ad hoc
    replied
    To that exaggerated extent? Can't think of anyone

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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    I would imagine the majority of the players involved in The Ashes have been "talked up by twats".

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  • ad hoc
    replied
    Lyon also suffers from this GOAT jokenotjoke bollocks. It's not his fault at all but it's hard not to take against someone who gets talked up by twats

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  • jameswba
    replied
    Since Lyon started to become a serious factor in these contests, I've always had the impression he's a decent guy who loves the game and respects his opponents. For whatever reason, he also seems to have occasionally felt the need to make graceless comments to the media (the one about 'ending careers' being the best example), but these seem to have gone against his real nature. I could easily picture him doing what DD refers to above.

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  • diggedy derek
    replied
    I've hitherto disliked Lyon strongly, but there was a very nice story coming out of the last Australian tour game where Lyon spent hours giving tips to one of the county offspinners in his own downtime.

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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Thanks, that's a good piece and Lyon comes across really well in it.
    Last edited by Ray de Galles; 10-09-2019, 13:18.

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  • ursus arctos
    replied
    He split it in the first innings and had it super glued

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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Yes, Paine said something about Lyon toiling with "a finger torn in half" or similar after the 4th Test.

    I'm not sure how long he's meant to have had the injury but recall reading that one reason for his (thankfully not series-defining) drop at Headingley may have been that he was protecting his spinning hand.
    Last edited by Ray de Galles; 10-09-2019, 13:05.

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  • Satchmo Distel
    replied
    I think Stokes will only play as a batsman so they have to drop Roy and/or Buttler, My only concern is that this continues the practice of having bits and pieces all-rounders throughout the middle-order, which has failed in two successive Ashes series now (not to mention the 1980s and 90s).

    Australia might go for four seamers at The Oval as Lyon has been carrying an injury. Maybe Pattinson and Siddle for Starc and Lyon. This would also lower the over rate further as a defensive fallback.
    Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 10-09-2019, 12:37.

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  • E10 Rifle
    replied
    I'd put Woakes in for Overton, Curran for Roy

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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    He's retained in the 13 man squad though, so could still play at The Oval.

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  • Nocturnal Submission
    replied
    Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post

    i was thinking the same with regards to Sam Curran, especially if Stokes can't bowl as seems likely.

    Sam Curran's omission is very odd. Someone said that it's because he's not part of Root's clique.

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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Ah, it certainly isn't related to the Australian fans :

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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post

    I did wonder about that but the (unattributed) quote doesn't give us any more info (I think it might be from Paul Hayward who mentions the incident on Twitter but I'd be surprised if he was anywhere near it when it happened).

    On the information above alone, an expulsion seems OTT. I've seen and heard more than enough prolonged boorish barracking of players at test matches by people who "wouldn't shut the fuck up" without any kind of sanction being taken.
    It isn't made clear if this is related to the ejections discussed above ;

    'Racist and homophobic abuse' forces fan to leave fourth Ashes Test
    Last edited by Ray de Galles; 10-09-2019, 11:34.

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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View Post
    I wonder if England will recall Ollie Pope for the last test given that it's on his home ground?
    i was thinking the same with regards to Sam Curran, especially if Stokes can't bowl as seems likely.

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  • diggedy derek
    replied
    That's a fantastic stat.

    If I remember correctly, in the 2009 series, the Australian top six had a better total average than their English counterparts, and their bowlers likewise. The difference was that (a) England were comprehensively outperformed in Cardiff, yet somehow hung on for a draw and (b) England numbers seven to nine, Prior, Swann, Broad, were great counterattacking throughout the series.

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