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  • George C.
    replied
    Yeah right. They cynically change the criteria and then don't select these foreigners. How does that work?

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  • Duncan Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by Etienne View Post
    Yeah, and Jennings mum was English. These things are rarely black and white. I have much more of an issue with players like Abbott and Olivier abandoning international careers for Kolpak contracts. International cricketers should be paid enough that it's not financially better to play county cricket, and richer nations should spread out more money to the poorer ones if their boards can't afford to make it so
    It's clear cut in the sense that Archer, Jennings and Malan are 'ringers' by moving as adults. I'm not blaming them for moving, nor querying whether they meet the eligibility criteria. I'd just prefer England didn't pick them.
    Last edited by Duncan Gardner; 16-09-2019, 11:17.

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  • Etienne
    replied
    Other way round surely. If the SACB and the WICB had substantially more money, then there would be much less financial incentive for some of their young players to decide that playing in/for England would be better for them. Of course other reasons might still persuade them.

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  • George C.
    replied
    Originally posted by Etienne View Post
    Yeah, and Jennings mum was English. These things are rarely black and white. I have much more of an issue with players like Abbott and Olivier abandoning international careers for Kolpak contracts. International cricketers should be paid enough that it's not financially better to play county cricket, and richer nations should spread out more money to the poorer ones if their boards can't afford to make it so.
    Not going to happen though if the likes of England (& Wales) keep poaching lesser teams best players. Especially when they have hundreds of home-grown ones of their own to choose from.

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  • Vicarious Thrillseeker
    replied
    Ooh. The series result is dreadful, in that it papers over massive cracks for both teams. Burns acquitted himself well and Stokes was, well, Stokes. But the batting shows Bayliss's preference for white ball cricket - we need batsmen who know where off stump is and the need for soft hands. As mentioned above, Denly is 33 and not the answer for much longer. Bowling - Broad was awesome, and Archer is a genuine threat. But apart from that, the cupboard is looking a little bare. Woakes and Overton are not going to pull up trees for you. Just how long can Broad continue in this vein? And who is going to replace him? I'm not yet convinced that Leach is the answer to our spinning issue, either. Yeah - I'm a tough audience....

    Root's a lucky captain - he got very lucky with the Headingley win, Paine's abysmal reviewing and his (Paine's) decison to bowl first at the Oval. He'll probably keep his job for a while now.

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  • Etienne
    replied
    Yeah, and Jennings mum was English. These things are rarely black and white. I have much more of an issue with players like Abbott and Olivier abandoning international careers for Kolpak contracts. International cricketers should be paid enough that it's not financially better to play county cricket, and richer nations should spread out more money to the poorer ones if their boards can't afford to make it so.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Malan was born in England though.

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  • Etienne
    replied
    Yeah, I think Malan was about 18 and Jennings 20 when they moved over.

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  • Duncan Gardner
    replied
    Thanks Etienne, my mistake. I think I may have confused him with another player- Jennings or Malan perhaps?

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  • Etienne
    replied
    Roy was 10 when his family moved to the UK.

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  • Duncan Gardner
    replied
    England used 2 players who moved here as adults (Roy and Archer). Curran and Stokes went to school in England (and Labuschagne and Khawaja in Australia)

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  • George C.
    replied
    What Satchmo said, plus an over reliance on foreign players.

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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    While I thought Satchmo saying England were in "crisis" was a massive exaggeration but I think you've gone too far the other way.

    Joe Denly is 33 so can hardly be described as an opener who is "coming good and will get better with experience". He's a stopgap, a very useful one, but not a long term answer.

    Root isn't settled at three at all and won't be batting there very much more I'd imagine, there will be more experimentation in that role.

    I'm amazed you think you can "probably cope without Broad" when he has had one of the, maybe the, best series of his career. Woakes hasn't been trusted very much at all this series and Overton was turfed out after one test. Getting Archer was a massive stroke of luck but you're going to be relying on him heavily, though I agree Curran deserves a proper run in your side.

    If "the problem is 4,5,6,7" then that's a pretty major one as it's the engine room of your batting. You need new players or for the ones who are there to find form incredibly quickly.

    I think England are in a decent place for a side that hasn't had a plan for test cricket for the last 3/4 years with a few players they can build a side around but the new coach has an awful lot of work to do.


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  • Kevin S
    replied
    Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post

    I share Rogin's interest in the award but in the spirit that it's an anachronism like the Queen's Speech and Black Rod. I'd be very surprised if Stokes has thought about the award.

    2-2 is flattering to England but also a warning to Australia that they are still not quite good enough yet to be challenging for No. 1: batting is awful bar two players; the fielding errors cost them the series win; Paine seems to be a good manager of players but makes basic errors with the toss and reviews. Langer clearly was unhappy with the loss of intensity in this Test and the Headingley fuck up.

    I suspect England will lose in NZ and South Africa and their crisis will deepen, unless the new coach is really tough.
    See, I'm weirdly optimistic now. We knew before the Ashes that England are a team in transition but I reckon we've finished the series a stronger team than we started it.

    We've tried the Roy experiment so can leave that alone now - the openers we've landed on are coming good and will get better with experience.

    Root has finally accepted the golden rule: best batter at three, and that's you whether you like it or not.

    We can manage without Anderson and we can probably cope without Broad too. Archer, Woakes, Curran, Overton - that's the pace pack for the foreseeable with Stokes chipping in if required/able.

    Leach looks the business and adds resilience to the tail.

    The problem is 4,5,6,7. Who plays and where. Stokes is obviously somewhere in there but what about the other three? Does Foakes come in to free Bairstow of the gloves?

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  • Hot Pepsi
    replied
    First Ashes to finish drawn since June 1972 so the first one to be drawn in my lifetime. Surprising to learn that it’s not drawn more often.

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  • ad hoc
    replied
    Love those field placings

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  • Sporting
    replied
    I don't suppose there are many of you here who remember when Underwood did his magic:

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  • Satchmo Distel
    replied
    Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
    I would bet a large sum that you will be the last man in Britain who cares (or even thinks) about that award.

    You no longer have that many rivals to see off.
    I share Rogin's interest in the award but in the spirit that it's an anachronism like the Queen's Speech and Black Rod. I'd be very surprised if Stokes has thought about the award.

    2-2 is flattering to England but also a warning to Australia that they are still not quite good enough yet to be challenging for No. 1: batting is awful bar two players; the fielding errors cost them the series win; Paine seems to be a good manager of players but makes basic errors with the toss and reviews. Langer clearly was unhappy with the loss of intensity in this Test and the Headingley fuck up.

    I suspect England will lose in NZ and South Africa and their crisis will deepen, unless the new coach is really tough.
    Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 15-09-2019, 18:10.

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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Leach on a hat trick in New Zealand then.

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  • Rogin the Armchair fan
    replied
    It is a very pale shadow of the show it once was, it's true.

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  • ursus arctos
    replied
    I would bet a large sum that you will be the last man in Britain who cares (or even thinks) about that award.

    You no longer have that many rivals to see off.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogin the Armchair fan
    replied
    Ben Stokes needs to do something this afternoon to cement his place in the hearts and minds of the people who will pick up the phone and vote in the BBC Sports Personality of the Year. I'd recommend mooning every departing Australian batsman this afternoon, then rushing over and grabbing the Ashes off the plinth and running away with them during the presentation ceremony.

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  • Vicarious Thrillseeker
    replied
    Flipping heck, Smith's out

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  • Tony C
    replied
    Just read that in the first innings here Warner became the first opening batsman in test history (not just Ashes) to score eight single digit scores in a series.

    I daresay he'll unashamedly join in the post match celebrations.

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  • Tony C
    replied
    Originally posted by Kevin S View Post
    Well, Warner made double figures this time.
    It improved his series average.

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