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    The Dodgers have been knocked out of the playoffs the past three years by that year's World Series champions.

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      Reed, I've no idea how you recollect that night so vividly. You sound like me talking about a football match 30 years ago. I remember the Strasbourg thing. Why did it go on so late? Was there a weather break? Of all the Nationals games I went to, I couldn't tell you a single score, or a single team they were playing against.

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        The one thing for the Nats is that they certainly earned this title. They beat the Dodgers (106 wins) and the Astros (107) wins. That's not an easy road--and the fact that both series went the distance speaks to that difficulty.

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          I think I read on the BBC report that as well as all 7 games of this year's world series being won by the away team, the last six world series have also now been clinched by a team 'on the road'. Is there a pattern for teams choking in the playoffs in front of a home crowd?

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            Originally posted by imp View Post
            Reed, I've no idea how you recollect that night so vividly. You sound like me talking about a football match 30 years ago. I remember the Strasbourg thing. Why did it go on so late? Was there a weather break? Of all the Nationals games I went to, I couldn't tell you a single score, or a single team they were playing against.
            I've only been to about 25 major league games in my life, so I remember something about each of them. But I remember a bit more about that one because I've only been to that stadium twice and because the marketing effort to get fans excited about a draft pick is very unusual in baseball.*

            I also probably remember it because that is the only time I've been to a major league game that was delayed that long. There was a very long weather delay. I don't think the game started until about 8. Maybe later. I've never been at a major league game with so few other people in the stands.

            * It's becoming a bit more common now that the internet has all kinds of anoraky sites devoted to prospects and the minor leagues, but usually even the first overall pick in the baseball draft will play a few seasons in the minors before even playing for the big league team and one player can't really change the fortunes of a team anyway. The draft is a bigger deal in basketball and football where the top picks, at least, will join their team the following season and, in many cases, make a big impact right away.

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              Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
              I think I read on the BBC report that as well as all 7 games of this year's world series being won by the away team, the last six world series have also now been clinched by a team 'on the road'. Is there a pattern for teams choking in the playoffs in front of a home crowd?
              I don't think so. That's probably an anomaly. The team with the better record hosts the first two and the last two games. That may have something to do with it somehow. I'm not sure.

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                Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
                I think I read on the BBC report that as well as all 7 games of this year's world series being won by the away team, the last six world series have also now been clinched by a team 'on the road'. Is there a pattern for teams choking in the playoffs in front of a home crowd?
                The Red Sox were an incredible team last year. The Dodgers were lucky to win one and that took 18 innings. The 2017 WS was evenly matched. Had the Dodgers not blown a huge lead in Houston (game 5), they might have won that series. The Cubs and Cleveland was closely contested. The Cubs should have run away with that game 7 but let Cleveland back into the game. Dan Odowd (sp?) said on MLB Tonight tonight that had the grounds crew not brought out the tarp, that game 7 could have been very different given the momentum (which of course adds to the Cubs sense of destiny to break the curse). KC-Mets was way closer than the final 4-1 series win so as HP said, that victory on the road was really a product of the 2-3-2 schedules. Then the KC-Giants series had the Giants winning at home. These are some of the last 6, but not all. I'd probably agree with HP about the schedules and just add that in some cases the series was either very tight (not a choke job) or one team was much better than the other.

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                  I was astonished to be reminded that we had the Royals and the Mets were in the World Series in the last five years. I'd forgotten that. That seems like a match-up from a different era.

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                    Well, Larry Rothschild has become the Padres' problem.

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                      I can't say I like or dislike the Padres. There was a year when the Dodgers were in the mix and the Padres knocked them out (one of the seasons when the Giants won, if I remember correctly) so that was annoying. But I do hope for Padres fans that the team dumps those horrific camo uniforms.

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                        https://theathletic.com/1363451/2019...ague-baseball/

                        The Astros’ set-up in 2017 was not overly complicated. A feed from a camera in center field, fixed on the opposing catcher’s signs, was hooked up to a television monitor that was placed on a wall steps from the team’s home dugout at Minute Maid Park, in the tunnel that runs between the dugout and the clubhouse. Team employees and players would watch the screen during the game and try to decode signs — sitting opposite the screen on massage tables in a wide hallway.

                        When the onlookers believed they had decoded the signs, the expected pitch would be communicated via a loud noise — specifically, banging on a trash can, which sat in the tunnel. Normally, the bangs would mean a breaking ball or off-speed pitch was coming.
                        ...
                        Pitching for the White Sox in 2017, Danny Farquhar made two mid-September appearances at Minute Maid Park, just before the playoffs. One Astros source recalled that Farquhar appeared to visibly notice what the Astros were up to.

                        Farquhar, the source remembered, pointed to his ear on the mound.

                        “There was a banging from the dugout, almost like a bat hitting the bat rack every time a changeup signal got put down,” said Farquhar, who is now the pitching coach with the White Sox’s High-A affiliate in Winston-Salem, N.C. “After the third one, I stepped off. I was throwing some really good changeups and they were getting fouled off. After the third bang, I stepped off.”

                        Farquhar said he and his catcher changed the signs to the more complex kind used when a runner is on second base — a situation where base runners have long been able to legally relay signs, using their own eyes.

                        “The banging stopped,” Farquhar said. “My assumption was they were picking it up from the video and relaying the signs to the dugout. … That was my theory on the whole thing. It made me very upset. I was so angry, so mad, that the media didn’t come to me after.”
                        Also worth mentioning that the Nationals changed their signals prior to the World Series starting. It was a strange series, but interesting to think about that while pondering how Houston lost all their games at home...
                        Last edited by Incandenza; 12-11-2019, 19:06.

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                          [URL]https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1194348775965437952[/URL]

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                            I saw some of that Jomboy footage on MLB Tonight but that video was much better since the MLB Tonight hosts talked over it.

                            More NL West news: Giants hire Kapler, go the reports. I'm good with this as a Dodgers fan, but I think it's a mistake. I think he'd benefit from a little time off to reflect. The Phillies suffered from injuries, and I think they signed a manager killer in Harper, but they were a bad defensive team and two years in a row they melted down toward the end of the season. There are things a manager can control and things a manager can't control. I think errors can be controlled. Just look at the Cardinals under Shildt.

                            Speaking of managers, how can Kevin Cash get robbed. There is no way that team had any business getting as far as they did during the season (since this is a pre-playoffs vote). I get that the Twins made the biggest jump but they've been a yo-yo team the last three years so no surprise that this was the up year. That's not to slight Baldelli, but Cash deserved the award.

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                              Don't know if you have access to Law360, UA, but if you do, this might be interesting for you

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                                Gotta find my password . . .

                                Thanks

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                                  Baseball Prospectus found a lot of at bats from 2017 with audible banging sounds:
                                  https://www.baseballprospectus.com/n...led-delivered/

                                  Before the seventh pitch of the year, you can hear a bang right before Jose Altuve watches a Felix Hernandez dive below the zone. They were stealing signs on literally the first day of the season. They didn’t just come up with this on a whim halfway through the year and see if it worked. The Astros entered 2017 with a plan in place to relay signs to their hitters.

                                  While anonymous sources differed on whether or not the Astros used this system during their World Series run in 2017, one thing is very clear—this was not a one time thing. In fact, the blunt-object-to-hollow-plastic sound can be heard in almost every game I watched. To think a team would stop using this tactic right when the games matter the most would be ludicrous.

                                  Reddit user ryanmuller1089 posted a video seemingly showing a whistle indicating Clayton Kershaw’s curveball was on the way during Game 5 of the World Series.
                                  Bubbaprog posted a different video from the 2017 WS, where you can clearly hear a similar annoying whistle as Darvish is ready to pitch.

                                  [URL]https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1194659705051910144[/URL]

                                  Same whistle:
                                  Last edited by Incandenza; 13-11-2019, 17:12.

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                                    It's hard to see that the Astros would have stopped in the WS. But that Burke video doesn't add much since Barnes went out to the mound. No need to put down fingers at that point. They talked about the WS on MLB Now. Scott Braun brought up how hard the Astros hit Darvish but Eric Byrnes noted that it would be hard to pick up his pitches given Darvish's 5-pitch repertoire. Given how bad he was in that WS and in his first season+ with the Cubs, I probably would side with Darvish just sucking. I don't doubt, though, that the Astros were using tech during the WS as well. Darvish was bad, though; Kershaw was bad; and Jansen was bad. Maybe all three were victims of video sign stealing but the other two haven't been much better during the playoffs since 2017.

                                    Maeda, on the other hand, has been lights out in the playoffs the past few years. So that whistle could mean something or it could just be Altuve being a true MVP player.

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                                      The 42 minor league teams to be cut have been announced by the New York Times, not all of them from short season or rookie leagues either. From first glance nothing from AAA, but at least a couple from the next level down:

                                      CALIFORNIA
                                      Lancaster Jethawks

                                      COLORADO
                                      Rocky Mountain Vibes
                                      Grand Junction Rockies

                                      CONNECTICUT
                                      (Norwich) Connecticut Tigers

                                      FLORIDA
                                      (Kissimmee) Florida Fire Frogs
                                      Daytona Tortugas

                                      IOWA
                                      Quad Cities River Bandits
                                      Burlington Bees
                                      Clinton LumberKings

                                      IDAHO
                                      Idaho Falls Chukars

                                      KENTUCKY
                                      Lexington Legends

                                      MASSACHUSETTS
                                      Lowell Spinners

                                      MARYLAND
                                      Frederick Keys
                                      Hagerstown Suns

                                      MONTANA
                                      Great Falls Voyagers
                                      Missoula PaddleHeads
                                      Billings Mustangs

                                      NORTH CAROLINA
                                      Burlington Royals

                                      NEW YORK
                                      Staten Island Yankees
                                      Binghamton Rumble Ponies
                                      Auburn Doubledays
                                      Batavia Muckdogs

                                      OHIO
                                      Mahoning Valley Scrappers

                                      OREGON
                                      Salem-Keizer Volcanoes

                                      PENNSYLVANIA
                                      State College Spikes
                                      Williamsport Crosscutters
                                      Erie SeaWolves

                                      TENNESSEE
                                      Johnson City Cardinals
                                      Kingsport Mets
                                      Jackson Generals
                                      Elizabethton Twins
                                      Greeneville Reds
                                      Chattanooga Lookouts

                                      UTAH
                                      Ogden Raptors
                                      Orem Owlz

                                      VIRGINIA
                                      Bristol Pirates
                                      Danville Braves

                                      VERMONT
                                      (Burlington) Vermont Lake Monsters

                                      WASHINGTON
                                      Tri-City Dust Devils

                                      WEST VIRGINIA
                                      (Charleston) West Virginia Power
                                      Princeton Rays
                                      Bluefield Blue Jays

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                                        This is very upsetting.

                                        I don't know if I'll watch baseball ever again if this happens.

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                                          Who can make a decision to just get rid of 42 teams? Isn't it up to the teams themselves?

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                                            Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                            Who can make a decision to just get rid of 42 teams? Isn't it up to the teams themselves?
                                            The Major League clubs who provide, and pay the wages of, all the players, coaches and managers want it a restructuring to improve their player development. The Minor League team pays for everything else including ground improvements requested by the parent club. At present there are six levels with only the first four requiring a team for each MLB club, this proposal reduces it to four.

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                                              Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                                              This is very upsetting.

                                              I don't know if I'll watch baseball ever again if this happens.
                                              Judging by the responses I've seen I don't think you'll be alone.

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                                                The teams might still exist as commercial entities, but the players are paid for and assigned by the MLB teams. So if they are no longer affiliated with MLB teams, they wouldn't have any players. They could try to carry on as independent teams if they could find a league to play in, but then they'd have to make enough money on their own to pay the players and find players willing to play for an unaffiliated team for whatever they can pay. There are some independent leagues that manage to survive, but it's tough and would probably be impossible in small markets like many of the ones here.

                                                And, as I recall reading, MLB is hoping to poach some of the most successful independent teams - like the St. Paul Saints - and make them into affiliated teams, would would make it harder for those leagues to survive.

                                                Some of these teams will probably turn into "summer wood bat" teams. There are leagues for college players to play in the summer to continue develop (and just to play). Unlike college, they use wood bats to help those players learn how to hit with them in preparation of maybe turning pro. But there are already a ton of those.

                                                I would love to see a radical rethink of college baseball, so that they started later and played all summer. That would make it less of a regional thing.

                                                A lot of politicians are pushing back on this, obviously, but I don't know what they can do.

                                                MLB says its so they can pay minor leaguers more, but they could already afford to do that if they just weren't paying the major leaguers such outrageous sums.


                                                I don't know what State College will do. They have a ~6,000 seat stadium that they share with Penn State, but Penn State rarely draws over 1,000 fans and only uses it for about 30 games. If they were better, they'd draw a few more, but many of the games are in the spring when it's still cold. Maybe Altoona will play some games here or maybe just move here. But Altoona is already the smallest city in the Eastern League. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the plan is to make them single-A.

                                                Or maybe PSU will just give up, doze the stadium (which is barely ten years old), cut the 150-year-old baseball program and move on.

                                                I doubt it will come to that, but there will be some people who argue that makes economic sense.

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                                                  Hope these teams tell the major leagues to go fuck themselves, get a TV deal with one of the streaming services, and form their own leagues. And prove more popular than MLB

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