MLB 2019

[George]

I suspect the NFL are working to a much shorter timeframe than that for getting a London franchise operational.

[ursus arctos]

I expect that they are too and Mr Kahn certainly hopes so.

Though I expect that in the nearer term it will swerve their purposes to have a realistic alternative that they can use to blackmail US municipalities that refuse to pay for super luxury facilities.

[San Bernardhinault]

Though I expect that in the nearer term it will swerve their purposes to have a realistic alternative that they can use to blackmail US municipalities that refuse to pay for super luxury facilities.

Particularly as they've now used up their previous two major blackmail spots, LA and Vegas. St Louis and San Diego and Oakland aren't going to terrify anywhere into building a $2bn stadium that gets used 15 times a year.

[George]

I assume the carrot dangling in front of small market team owner's here is the potentially huge increase in the market value of their franchise if they can make London work, and it's a big 'If' admittedly. Many things would have to go right but it's a major world city with upwards of 10 million people living in it. Shaking down the municipal authorities to help fund a shiny new stadium in Jacksonville is nice, but it would still be in Jacksonville.

Am I right in saying the wealth of several NFL team owners is tied up in the value of the team, rather than any billions acquired from other businesses?

[Hot Pepsi]

There is a real chance that London will host a NFL franchise in the next 20 years. That simply will not happen in MLB. As a result, MLB is more interested in creating buzz among the London "event" crowd and maximising the take.

Probably right, though they'll never know how well it might do in new countries if they don't really try.

It appears baseball's best bets for new markets outside of the ones where it's already established are South America, China (even a relatively unpopular sport in China represents a lot of fans), and maybe South East Asia. But it should see what it can do in Europe, Australia, and Southern Africa. The State Department should probably help, since baseball is one of those things that generally reflects well on American culture. History suggests that the popularity of cricket and baseball are mutually exclusive, but I don't think its quite a zero-sum game. And, like I explained on that NBA thread, there are always young people who gravitate to a sport specifically because it is not the dominant sport at their school (or favored by their father). This works against baseball in the US and Canada, and especially in places undergoing social upheavals like Cuba, but could work in its favor in India, for example.

Baseball also needs to make more effort in a lot of places where it is still fairly popular but hardly unassailable, especially Canada and Mexico, but also in the US, Japan, Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Panama, and PR. I don't know if it's in danger of losing popularity in the DR, but baseball owes that country and should be doing more to make the development of players there more fair. (And the US should be doing a lot more to help the DR and Haiti overall because its the right thing to do and we're more than a bit responsible for the current state of affairs.)

[Ginger Yellow]

Those don't seem that much more expensive than the NFL tickets, really, except at the top end. There aren't many "cheap" NFL tickets in London, and they're all really far from the action. And they still cost £55 this year.

[Hot Pepsi]

I assume the carrot dangling in front of small market team owner's here is the potentially huge increase in the market value of their franchise if they can make London work, and it's a big 'If' admittedly. Many things would have to go right but it's a major world city with upwards of 10 million people living in it. Shaking down the municipal authorities to help fund a shiny new stadium in Jacksonville is nice, but it would still be in Jacksonville.

Am I right in saying the wealth of several NFL team owners is tied up in the value of the team, rather than any billions acquired from other businesses?

There are a few left like that, but not as many as there once were. An NFL team is a license to print money so a lot of money from other places has come in over the years.

That said, the Browns still own the Bengals and not much else. Likewise, the Rooneys own the Steelers, the Maras own the Giants. The Bears are owned by George Halas' daughter. Al Davis maneuvered his way from being a not-very-good high school player to being an NFL coach to owning the Raiders, now his son owns them.

As you can imagine, that generation of pioneers from the 50s and 60s is all dead, so insofar as those families still own the team, it's their kids and grandkids who own them. And, as you might imagine, football genius isn't necessarily passed on in the genes. The Bengals being the most obvious example. But, in some cases, the next generation might actually do a better job. Robert Irsay was a terrible owner for the Baltimore Colts but his son Jim, despite fighting a lot of his own personal problems, has done a pretty good job with the Indianapolis Colts, all things considered. (The most dramatic example of this in all sports that I know of is the Chicago Blackhawks. Look it up).

But the Pegulas, for example, bought the Bills with oil and gas money. Jerry Jones got rich on insurance and real estate. The Seahawks were owned by Paul Allen of Microsoft, etc. The Jets are owned by Woody Johnson, an heir of the Johnsons of Johnson & Johnson fame. Robert Kraft's family was fairly well off but he made his money in cardboard. Biscotti of the Ravens made his fortune in staffing companies (I wouldn't have imagined there was a fortune in that to be had) and Arthur Blank of the Falcons co-founded Home Depot.

Not surprisingly, the owners who were born rich are not usually as good at running football teams (or anything) as the ones whose wealth is at least partly attributable to their business acumen. But of course, many of those - most notably, Jerry Jones - refuse to see that being successful in real estate doesn't mean they know anything about football. The way to succeed as a sports owner is to use whatever charm you have to schmooze the local business community to buy lots of tickets and sponsorship deals and focus on that and somehow find the smartest football (or whatever sport) mind you can to be your president of on-field operations and/or GM and then stay out of their way.

[Ginger Yellow]

So you're saying London is the Bad Place?

[ursus arctos]

On owners, I think that it is pretty much only those who inherited the teams from old school NFL owners who could possibly qualify (and even then, one would have to assume that they had done little to "monetise" the massive increases in the value of their franchises since they inherited them.

So: Bidwell (Arizona), Halas McCaskey (Chicago), Brown (Cincinnati) Davis (Raiders), and Rooney (Pittsburgh). The Hunts (KC) and Fords (Detroit) inherited the team, but also inherited a huge pile of cash. The Maras "monetised" by selling about half of the Giants.

There's also the fact that the other NFL owners aren't going to allow Khan (or anyone else) to just walk away with that kind of windfall (and that it is much more difficult to actually reap a windfall given the NFL's revenue-sharing rules).

[Hot Pepsi]

I forgot about Lamar Hunt. Yes, he came with oil money and his family still owns the Chiefs. And of course, the Packers are a public trust.

I can't think of any examples of ownership like those families in baseball (or basketball or hockey, though I know little about basketball).

[Cal Alamein]

https://twitter.com/Cardinals/status...97879390527488

Bravo Matt Carpenter. Wish more pull hitters had the balls to "hit" to the opposite field.

[Flynnie]

Those don't seem that much more expensive than the NFL tickets, really, except at the top end. There aren't many "cheap" NFL tickets in London, and they're all really far from the action. And they still cost £55 this year.

The most expensive non club Wembley seat is £116 and no upper deck seat is more expensive than £84. Even club Wembley tops out at £155.

There are bleacher seats more expensive than that for MLB.

[Ginger Yellow]

Sure, but equally there are multiple tiers of MLB seats that are cheaper than any NFL seats, and there are hardly any of the cheapest tier of NFL seats, whereas it looks like there are (proportionately) about as many up to £60 MLB seats as there are up to £75 seats at MLB.

Edit: Ah, sorry, I was looking at the Tottenham price map. Seems Wembley's a bit more reasonable this year. Still, I paid over £50 when I last went to NFL at Wembley and it was a terrible view.

[Flynnie]

Sure, but equally there are multiple tiers of MLB seats that are cheaper than any NFL seats, and there are hardly any of the cheapest tier of NFL seats, whereas it looks like there are (proportionately) about as many up to £60 MLB seats as there are up to £75 seats at MLB.

Edit: Ah, sorry, I was looking at the Tottenham price map. Seems Wembley's a bit more reasonable this year. Still, I paid over £50 when I last went to NFL at Wembley and it was a terrible view.

Ah wow, I hadn't seen the Tottenham price map. Yeah that's much more than Wemberlee.

Tottenham:





When you compare Wembley to MLB, the lack of decent, affordable seats becomes very clear.

[Ginger Yellow]

On the flip side, I expect to spend more to see the Bears this year than the Cubs next year. For a worse experience, probably.

[jefe]

And we let Oakland hang 10 on us in one inning. Christ.

[WOM]

Tampa Rays have received MLB permission to evaluating playing half their season in Montreal. Purists will scoff, of course, but it makes total sense. First half of the season in FLA, second half in MTL. I love it.

[Hot Pepsi]

I don’t think that will actually happen.

[WOM]

Both parties are highly motivated. We'll see.

[Hot Pepsi]

I don’t think either city would chip in money for a stadium for half a franchise.

I suspect Sternberg is trying to turn up the heat on Tampa and also wants to be able to say he tried to find a compromise when he eventually moves the team.


http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2019/0...ly-not-insane/

[ursus arctos]

Quite

See the Expos in Puerto Rico

[ursus arctos]

[URL="https://twitter.com/romano_tbtimes/status/1141798096957071360?s=21"]https://twitter.com/romano_tbtimes/status/1141798096957071360[/URL]

[Incandenza]

Dieter Ruehle, the Dodgers (and Kings) organist, was having fun last night.

[URL]https://twitter.com/organistalert/status/1141967625087590400[/URL]

[ursus arctos]

Thank eff for that.

[Flynnie]

I do not see the humour.