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Tokyo Calling - Rugby 2019

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    Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post


    We've only realistically got Johnny McNichol in the pipeline and Scotland continue with kilted kiwis rather than residency qualified players.
    Reading my first "What next for Wales?" article today and it says Willis Halaholo is now qualified for us. Or is he not a realistic prospect?

    I'd rather not go down that route but if everyone else is...

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      I didn't realise he was qualifying, I thought he'd been capped for one of the Pacific Islands. I think he'd get a look in as the other centre options don't seem that strong. The two from the Dragons haven't really kicked on, Morgan and Dixon, and there's nobody else except the U20s.

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        Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post

        Reading my first "What next for Wales?" article today and it says Willis Halaholo is now qualified for us. Or is he not a realistic prospect?

        I'd rather not go down that route but if everyone else is...
        Surely with the likes of Felatau, Anscombe and Parkes you already have done...

        Comment


          Originally posted by Tony C View Post

          Surely with the likes of Felatau, Anscombe and Parkes you already have done...
          Faletau was raised in Wales from an early age, possibly 8, along with the Vunipola brothers as their fathers had come to Wales to play rugby.

          Anscombe's mother is from Wales iirc but I'm sure he would have stayed in NZ if he was good enough for the All Blacks, he played U20s for them.

          Parkes is a ringer. He only scraped under the 3 year residency rule by days.

          I'm against all of the residency qualifications unless they date from childhood and World Rugby really need to sort this out.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Tony C View Post

            Surely with the likes of Felatau, Anscombe and Parkes you already have done...
            AE has already pointed out how that comment appears to betray an ignorance of two of those players' circumstances and qualification. I don't think anyone has argued that there is a problem with players who qualify through living in a country from childhood, through nationality and coming through that nation's system or who qualify through parentage.

            The issue is with players who qualify for a country solely due to spending three years drawing a wage at one of it's clubs, I'd personally prefer that Parkes, McNichol and Halaholo didn't qualify for us through that route. That's even before we get on to the point that we benefit from such qualifications far far less than richer rugby nations such as England, France and even Ireland.
            Last edited by Ray de Galles; 28-10-2019, 20:44.

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              Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post

              Parkes is a ringer. He only scraped under the 3 year residency rule by days.
              I'm not sure what you mean by "scraped in", the fact that his debut was on the very day he qualified through three years of residency?

              Comment


                Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post

                I'm not sure what you mean by "scraped in", the fact that his debut was on the very day he qualified through three years of residency?
                If he hadn't played in that match he would have had to have taken the five year route. Hence the rush to play him.

                Comment


                  Really? I never realised that, how does that work then?

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post

                    AE has already pointed out how that comment appears to betray an ignorance of two of those players' circumstances and qualification. I don't think anyone has argued that there is a problem with players who qualify through living in a country from childhood, through nationality and coming through that nation's system or who qualify through parentage.
                    If you'll forgive my ignorance I genuinely don't understand why you might consider Anscombe's situation as acceptable as opposed to Parkes's. Yes, Anscombe's mother is Welsh but he was a born and raised New Zealander who had played for NZ U21's. As AE suggested he probably would have stayed there if he had been good enough for the All Blacks but chose the Welsh fast track route offered to him by Gatland when he realised he wasn't. He was brought to Wales as a fully fledged player specifically to play test rugby. I would compare the situation to that of Kevin Pietersen who only came to England from SA as a fully developed cricketer in his twenties and despite having an English mother should not, I believe, have been considered for England. In both cases they had already effectively chosen their nationality when playing representatively for their countries of birth - not sure they (and hundreds like them across all sports) should be able to switch so readily and conveniently. Of course what they did was perfectly legal in qualification terms, but perhaps not morally palatable and as your earlier comment about Halaholo appeared to be morally based I'm surprised you are giving Anscombe a pass.


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                      I find Anscombe's situation immensely more palatable to Parkes' because he has a lifelong genuine link to Wales due to his parentage. Perhaps I'm more understanding of that as someone whose children were born and are being brought up in another country but I want them to have the option to represent Wales as they consider themselves half-Welsh.

                      I mean, parental qualification is really a fundamental part of national sport and has been for a long time. You'd really want to abolish that? I can understand the concern about people who have played for an age group national side but I'm not in favour of the idea of forcing teenagers to make a decision that will have rigid implications for the rest of their lives.

                      As we all know and frequently say on here, nationality is a complex, multi-stranded issue That applies for Anscombe (the idea that he can only be a "born and raised New Zealander" seems very crass to me), Pietersen and someone like Jofra Archer and, of course, it can be exploited. But at least in those cases we're actually discussing where lines should be drawn on nationality. That's not the case with players who qualify on residency grounds, it purely is where they've earned their money for a relatively short period in their career (roughly the length of one contract) - surely you can see the difference?

                      You've conceded that Faletau's case isn't comparable to Parkes* et al?



                      *By the way, I've got no problem with Parkes personally or the fact he plays for Wales under the current rules. I just concede those rules aren't sensible ones or good for the game overall.
                      Last edited by Ray de Galles; 28-10-2019, 23:33.

                      Comment


                        Seems slightly odd that the 3/4 place match is on a Friday. Why not have it on the Saturday and the final the following day?

                        Comment


                          Owens misses out on refereeing the final, reason unclear. Garces gets it instead, and we can write the "Outrage at Decision" stories now.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Sporting View Post
                            Seems slightly odd that the 3/4 place match is on a Friday. Why not have it on the Saturday and the final the following day?
                            I can see the commercial appeal of a Saturday evening final in the Oceania time zones (before the tournament one could reasonably expect New Zealand and/or Australia to be a part of this event), rather than Sunday night. The third-place playoff simply follows suit, and moves to Friday evening.

                            Comment


                              Has there been any discussion about eventually scrapping the 3/4 play-off? It seems a massive burden on knackered, deflated players for no real benefit.

                              Comment


                                Are you kidding me? Gatland gets one last shot at the All Blacks! This is more exciting than the final!

                                Comment


                                  I think the last time the 3rd place playoff counted for anything was in 1995, when only the top 3 qualified automatically for the next one. England lost, and had to qualify for 1999, a process that involved them running in about 18 tries against the Netherlands in Huddersfield.

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
                                    I think the last time the 3rd place playoff counted for anything was in 1995, when only the top 3 qualified automatically for the next one. England lost, and had to qualify for 1999, a process that involved them running in about 18 tries against the Netherlands in Huddersfield.
                                    Wait, what? There was a Dutch team!!?

                                    Wow. I've learned something today.

                                    Comment


                                      Apparently so - doesn't look like much of a game though...

                                      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/rugby_union/214389.stm

                                      Comment


                                        Nigel Owens has a calf injury which is why he's not involved in the final. I'm not sure he'd have got it even if he was fit as he had the last final. Garces despite errors this RWC has been the best referee for about a year and probably deserves the final.

                                        Wayne Barnes is retiring after the RWC to concentrate on work and his family, he's developed into a top official.

                                        Comment


                                          Wales: Amos; Lane, Jonathan Davies, Watkin, Adams; Patchell, T Williams; N Smith, Owens, D Lewis, Beard, Alun Wyn Jones (capt), Tipuric, James Davies, Moriarty.

                                          Replacements: E Dee, Carre, W Jones, Ball, Shingler, G Davies, Biggar, Parkes.

                                          New Zealand: B Barrett; B Smith, Crotty, S Bill-Williams, Ioane; Mo'unga; A Smith; Moody, Coles, Laulala, Retallick, S Barrett, Frizzell, Cane, Read (capt).

                                          Replacements: Coltman, Moli, Ta'avao, Tuipulotu, Todd, Webber, Lienert-Brown, J Barrett.

                                          Teams for the bronze medal match as it's now billed.

                                          Leigh Halfpenny ruled out with concussion again. Very worrying for him.

                                          Comment


                                            It's worrying for Halfpenny and for the wider sport that it appears he picked up a concussion during a match and nobody spotted it at the time.

                                            That side really illustrates the extent of our injury list and relative shallowness of our player pool. We have to hope the All Blacks aren't switched on so we can avoid a hammering

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                                              I've a feeling it'll be like the 2003 match, I really hope so. Cubby playing is a huge call but shows the possible style of play.

                                              Pivac has been observing for the tournament and Stephen Jones has been inside the camp since Howley was sent home so there's an air of transition about this side. Wyn Jones has been listed as second reserve prop so I presume he's covering tight head with Francis injured.

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                                                Yeah, when the squad was announced it was indicated that Wyn and Carre had trained at tight head with a view to them covering if needed.

                                                I chatted to Pivac in Tokyo before the Australia match and he said he was heading home after that game and would return if we made the semis or final, I can't recall which. He certainly gave the impression he didn't want to be peering over Gatland's shoulder though obviously having Jones in camp was a good thing for continuity.
                                                Last edited by Ray de Galles; 30-10-2019, 11:39.

                                                Comment


                                                  Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post
                                                  Yeah, when the squad was announced it was indicated that Wyn and Carre had trained at tight head with a view to them covering if needed.

                                                  I chatted to Pivac in Tokyo before the Australia match and he said he was heading home after that game and would return if we made the semis or final, I can't recall which. He certainly gave the impression he didn't want to be peering over Gatland's shoulder though obviously having Jones in camp was a good thing for continuity.
                                                  How was he? He comes across well and appears to be a little more relaxed than Gatland but there's an obvious edge to him. He cleared out a lot of dead wood at the Scarlets and then got them to buy into his way of playing talking a relatively limited side very far until Leinster had too much up front for them. He then lost key players through injury or leaving so I'm still hopeful he's the right choice.

                                                  I fear a wave of retirements after the RWC when we so need continuity. Let's see after Friday.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Friday is Gatland's last ever Wales game, 12 years on and after two sabbaticals with the Lions it all comes to an end. He's probably the second greatest ever coach we've had after Carwyn James and has greatly over achieved with a regional and club game in chaos. He's taken us so far and hopefully has left a legacy, players such as Elliot Dee and Dillon Lewis, both at the start of their Wales careers, talk of the belief he's given them and the squad.

                                                    I've only got one issue with him, what happened between him and Dwayne Peel? It's not about him preferring Mike Phillips who was bigger and fitted his plan or about Peel moving to Sale. It can't even be him being seen as difficult as Gatland gave Henson a real chance and would have taken him to NZ in 2011. So what is it?

                                                    However he's been brilliant and should make an excellent coach for the All Blacks. Thanks for everything.

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