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Tokyo Calling - Rugby 2019

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  • Simon G
    replied
    Apparently so - doesn't look like much of a game though...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/rugby_union/214389.stm

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  • Wouter D
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
    I think the last time the 3rd place playoff counted for anything was in 1995, when only the top 3 qualified automatically for the next one. England lost, and had to qualify for 1999, a process that involved them running in about 18 tries against the Netherlands in Huddersfield.
    Wait, what? There was a Dutch team!!?

    Wow. I've learned something today.

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  • Rogin the Armchair fan
    replied
    I think the last time the 3rd place playoff counted for anything was in 1995, when only the top 3 qualified automatically for the next one. England lost, and had to qualify for 1999, a process that involved them running in about 18 tries against the Netherlands in Huddersfield.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wouter D
    replied
    Are you kidding me? Gatland gets one last shot at the All Blacks! This is more exciting than the final!

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  • Satchmo Distel
    replied
    Has there been any discussion about eventually scrapping the 3/4 play-off? It seems a massive burden on knackered, deflated players for no real benefit.

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  • Wouter D
    replied
    Originally posted by Sporting View Post
    Seems slightly odd that the 3/4 place match is on a Friday. Why not have it on the Saturday and the final the following day?
    I can see the commercial appeal of a Saturday evening final in the Oceania time zones (before the tournament one could reasonably expect New Zealand and/or Australia to be a part of this event), rather than Sunday night. The third-place playoff simply follows suit, and moves to Friday evening.

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  • tee rex
    replied
    Owens misses out on refereeing the final, reason unclear. Garces gets it instead, and we can write the "Outrage at Decision" stories now.

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  • Sporting
    replied
    Seems slightly odd that the 3/4 place match is on a Friday. Why not have it on the Saturday and the final the following day?

    Leave a comment:


  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    I find Anscombe's situation immensely more palatable to Parkes' because he has a lifelong genuine link to Wales due to his parentage. Perhaps I'm more understanding of that as someone whose children were born and are being brought up in another country but I want them to have the option to represent Wales as they consider themselves half-Welsh.

    I mean, parental qualification is really a fundamental part of national sport and has been for a long time. You'd really want to abolish that? I can understand the concern about people who have played for an age group national side but I'm not in favour of the idea of forcing teenagers to make a decision that will have rigid implications for the rest of their lives.

    As we all know and frequently say on here, nationality is a complex, multi-stranded issue That applies for Anscombe (the idea that he can only be a "born and raised New Zealander" seems very crass to me), Pietersen and someone like Jofra Archer and, of course, it can be exploited. But at least in those cases we're actually discussing where lines should be drawn on nationality. That's not the case with players who qualify on residency grounds, it purely is where they've earned their money for a relatively short period in their career (roughly the length of one contract) - surely you can see the difference?

    You've conceded that Faletau's case isn't comparable to Parkes* et al?



    *By the way, I've got no problem with Parkes personally or the fact he plays for Wales under the current rules. I just concede those rules aren't sensible ones or good for the game overall.
    Last edited by Ray de Galles; 28-10-2019, 23:33.

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  • Tony C
    replied
    Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post

    AE has already pointed out how that comment appears to betray an ignorance of two of those players' circumstances and qualification. I don't think anyone has argued that there is a problem with players who qualify through living in a country from childhood, through nationality and coming through that nation's system or who qualify through parentage.
    If you'll forgive my ignorance I genuinely don't understand why you might consider Anscombe's situation as acceptable as opposed to Parkes's. Yes, Anscombe's mother is Welsh but he was a born and raised New Zealander who had played for NZ U21's. As AE suggested he probably would have stayed there if he had been good enough for the All Blacks but chose the Welsh fast track route offered to him by Gatland when he realised he wasn't. He was brought to Wales as a fully fledged player specifically to play test rugby. I would compare the situation to that of Kevin Pietersen who only came to England from SA as a fully developed cricketer in his twenties and despite having an English mother should not, I believe, have been considered for England. In both cases they had already effectively chosen their nationality when playing representatively for their countries of birth - not sure they (and hundreds like them across all sports) should be able to switch so readily and conveniently. Of course what they did was perfectly legal in qualification terms, but perhaps not morally palatable and as your earlier comment about Halaholo appeared to be morally based I'm surprised you are giving Anscombe a pass.


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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Really? I never realised that, how does that work then?

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  • Antepli Ejderha
    replied
    Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post

    I'm not sure what you mean by "scraped in", the fact that his debut was on the very day he qualified through three years of residency?
    If he hadn't played in that match he would have had to have taken the five year route. Hence the rush to play him.

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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post

    Parkes is a ringer. He only scraped under the 3 year residency rule by days.
    I'm not sure what you mean by "scraped in", the fact that his debut was on the very day he qualified through three years of residency?

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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Originally posted by Tony C View Post

    Surely with the likes of Felatau, Anscombe and Parkes you already have done...
    AE has already pointed out how that comment appears to betray an ignorance of two of those players' circumstances and qualification. I don't think anyone has argued that there is a problem with players who qualify through living in a country from childhood, through nationality and coming through that nation's system or who qualify through parentage.

    The issue is with players who qualify for a country solely due to spending three years drawing a wage at one of it's clubs, I'd personally prefer that Parkes, McNichol and Halaholo didn't qualify for us through that route. That's even before we get on to the point that we benefit from such qualifications far far less than richer rugby nations such as England, France and even Ireland.
    Last edited by Ray de Galles; 28-10-2019, 20:44.

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  • Antepli Ejderha
    replied
    Originally posted by Tony C View Post

    Surely with the likes of Felatau, Anscombe and Parkes you already have done...
    Faletau was raised in Wales from an early age, possibly 8, along with the Vunipola brothers as their fathers had come to Wales to play rugby.

    Anscombe's mother is from Wales iirc but I'm sure he would have stayed in NZ if he was good enough for the All Blacks, he played U20s for them.

    Parkes is a ringer. He only scraped under the 3 year residency rule by days.

    I'm against all of the residency qualifications unless they date from childhood and World Rugby really need to sort this out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tony C
    replied
    Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post

    Reading my first "What next for Wales?" article today and it says Willis Halaholo is now qualified for us. Or is he not a realistic prospect?

    I'd rather not go down that route but if everyone else is...
    Surely with the likes of Felatau, Anscombe and Parkes you already have done...

    Leave a comment:


  • Antepli Ejderha
    replied
    I didn't realise he was qualifying, I thought he'd been capped for one of the Pacific Islands. I think he'd get a look in as the other centre options don't seem that strong. The two from the Dragons haven't really kicked on, Morgan and Dixon, and there's nobody else except the U20s.

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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post


    We've only realistically got Johnny McNichol in the pipeline and Scotland continue with kilted kiwis rather than residency qualified players.
    Reading my first "What next for Wales?" article today and it says Willis Halaholo is now qualified for us. Or is he not a realistic prospect?

    I'd rather not go down that route but if everyone else is...

    Leave a comment:


  • tee rex
    replied
    Making headlines in the land of the world champions (maybe it's like USA presidents, the winners don't take over until next year?):

    "Television New Zealand to show Coronation Street instead of 3rd/4th place play-off".

    Which is just brilliant (disappointingly it has more to do with TV rights than the network having a sulk, but it's truthy enough to reflect the mood. We still have to endure the final).

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  • Satchmo Distel
    replied
    I think Ireland hold the record for most quarter finals without ever making a SF.

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  • G-Man
    replied
    At present, the all-time World Cup standings, caklculsted at 4 points for first to one point for 4th plce, are:

    1. New Zealand 21
    2. Australia 17
    3. South Africa 12
    3. France 12
    5. England 11
    6. Wales 3
    6. Argentina 3
    8. Scotland 1

    If England win, they'll overtake France and share third place with SA. If England lose, they'll be fourth.

    Whatever happens, Wales will stay in 6th, but Argentina will drop to 7th.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Originally posted by ooh aah View Post
    Ultimately we seemed to be outdone by SA's poor kicks, not their good ones. Halfpenny dealt with the good ones fine, but there were a number of poor box kicks from SA that didnt go anywhere near far enough, and Welsh players just stood there and watched it bounce as if they were expecting Halfpenny to get it from 30m away.


    Yeah, broken play from an opposition error often bamboozles sides - especially a pretty rigid, systems-based team like us.

    We just didn't have enough in so many departments today, either in terms of replacements for the countless injured players or the small things on the pitch. It came down to the fine margins in a dogged game but at least it wasn't a card or contentious decision that cost us.
    Last edited by Ray de Galles; 27-10-2019, 19:55.

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  • ooh aah
    replied
    Worth remembering that France's stellar performance against Wales came off the back of an extended break due to the typhoon. The QF was their 1st game in 2 weeks, it was Wales 3rd. I think most good sides would put in a dominant performance in such circumstances.

    This was of course also true for Eng and NZ who also excelled in their QFs

    Leave a comment:


  • George C.
    replied
    Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
    Nothing to separate Wales, South Africa and France in terms of quality. Any of them could be in the final if you replayed the games. Japan could also have had a chance if they'd found a way to overcome huge packs.

    All Blacks may feel they'd be in the final if they'd lost the group game v South Africa but I wouldn't guarantee that either.
    France?

    Not this time.

    Leave a comment:


  • ooh aah
    replied
    Ultimately we seemed to be outdone by SA's poor kicks, not their good ones. Halfpenny dealt with the good ones fine, but there were a number of poor box kicks from SA that didnt go anywhere near far enough, and Welsh players just stood there and watched it bounce as if they were expecting Halfpenny to get it from 30m away.

    Leave a comment:

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