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Tokyo Calling - Rugby 2019

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    Am I right in thinking that a team which beat NZ before the final has only once ever won another game in a WC - Australia in '91?

    Anyway, well done SA. I'm surprisingly happy for them (considering how obnoxious some of my SA friends are when they're watching rugby).

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      Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
      Anyway, well done SA. I'm surprisingly happy for them (considering how obnoxious some of my SA friends are when they're watching rugby)
      "There are cunts, and there are cunts...and then there's Boris Cunting Johnson"

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        As has been said across social media in the last couple of hours it's no bad thing that England lost, even from the perspective of England followers like myself. The idea of bandwagon jumping Conservative triumphalism would have been harder to swallow than this defeat.

        Britain doesn't deserve nice things.

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          On a quick code - crossing point just watching the NZ - GB Lions test and the Kiwis have just produced a haka that would have All Blacks shaken.

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            Is the playing standard of international rugby league higher than union?

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              South Africa are the first side who lost a pool match to win the RWC. Very impressive.

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                I watched the game down my rugby club with about 200 other like minded people. The atmosphere was electric and although I wasn't drinking plenty were and it was clear it was going to be something special. Or at least it would have been if England had turned up and actually played. I cannot remember the last time I was so disappointed with an England performance (in any sport). South Africa dominated the forwards, superb tackling in the backs and had great ball handling skills. It was as if England's cup final was last week against the All Blacks and this was just an exhibition match. The only positive is that we didn't lose to Wales in the final.

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                  Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                  Is the playing standard of international rugby league higher than union?
                  Definitely one of those 'depends on who you ask' questions!

                  It's a bit of an 'apples and oranges' notion, too, but at the top level the standard is pretty similar I would have thought.

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                    Did some broadcaster have a camera on Johnson, ready to film his ‘celebrations ‘. Fucking hope so.

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                      Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                      Is the playing standard of international rugby league higher than union?
                      As Tony notes, it is a difficult question. For all their similarities, league and union are manifestly different sports, with no one playing both at international level at the same time, and only a relative handful of players having switched codes at that level. So the situation is rather different than that between union and sevens, or among the different forms of cricket, where the degree of overlap is higher.

                      There are fewer teams capable of winning a league World Cup than there are in union, but the difference isn't as high as between union and football. Nor is there any evidence that international league is anything other than the highest level of the sport in terms of quality (as there can be in basketball or ice hockey, depending on the participation of players in North American leagues).

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                        Don't get me wrong. All my family are Union fanatics, be it Gloucester, Bath or Bristol. They're all lovely people, and they're all gutted. I played rugby pretty seriously at school, because where I lived you just did.

                        But let's face it. Despite this being about the most normal and likeable England team I can remember, they are still the absolute litmus test in sport for Tory Cunt morale.

                        So fuck your Boris Bounce.

                        My hatred admittedly stems from living in France when the Carling/ Moore arrogant and efficient thing was in its rampant pomp, and from the bloody chariot song.

                        But nearly everything I've heard over the past week has been about 10 point minimum winning margins and the start of a rugby dynasty.

                        As someone said above: England doesn't deserve good things at the moment.

                        I suppose I'm a bitter, negative old bastard. I'd have much rather seen Wales or Ireland win it than England.

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                          I know lots of decent, working class , definitely 'unposh' people who enjoy their rugby and wanted England to win. Shame that their integrity is compromised by the broad stereotype of the England fan as Barbour - wearing Toryboy but it's an attachment that seems difficult to shake.

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                            Originally posted by Logan Mountstuart View Post
                            My hatred admittedly stems from living in France when the Carling/ Moore arrogant and efficient thing was in its rampant pomp, and from the bloody chariot song.
                            Moore, of course, has come good in recent years (perhaps always was in private) culminating with him telling Johnson to fuck off - not to his face unfortunately - for his obvious bandwagon jumping congratulations video message.

                            I took the Denis Law approach this morning and was initially going to have Parkrun as my round of golf but that got cancelled so had a lie-in and listened to Radio 4 instead. I can't, therefore, comment on the game but some of the punditry around it has been notable. Dawson's "If you could choose a combined XV from England and South Africa at this World Cup, you would choose all England players" was brilliantly dopey but the one that caught my eye was the one about "One game too far for England”. England had one game less to play and had a day more to relax and recover.

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                              Originally posted by Logan Mountstuart View Post
                              Don't get me wrong. All my family are Union fanatics, be it Gloucester, Bath or Bristol. They're all lovely people, and they're all gutted. I played rugby pretty seriously at school, because where I lived you just did.

                              But let's face it. Despite this being about the most normal and likeable England team I can remember, they are still the absolute litmus test in sport for Tory Cunt morale.

                              So fuck your Boris Bounce.

                              My hatred admittedly stems from living in France when the Carling/ Moore arrogant and efficient thing was in its rampant pomp, and from the bloody chariot song.

                              But nearly everything I've heard over the past week has been about 10 point minimum winning margins and the start of a rugby dynasty.

                              As someone said above: England doesn't deserve good things at the moment.

                              I suppose I'm a bitter, negative old bastard. I'd have much rather seen Wales or Ireland win it than England.
                              I salute your curmudgeonly attitude - I agree.

                              The problem with international sport is its always ruined by regimes exploiting victory for political purposes. Exhibit A: Miracle on Ice.

                              As someone who studiously avoids mixing sport and politics its a real turn off.

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                                God forbid Ireland ever win, their cheerleaders in the media are bad enough as it is.

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                                  The snide arrogance of the media given the Springboks are full of mean, hairy Boers and are the current Rugby Championship winners, along with the proliferation of public schoolboys in the England squad, certainly brings to mind the Brexit negotiations.

                                  oh yeah, we’ve got this, easiest negotiations ever. Then SA come out, disrupt the scrum, tackle hard, earn the right to play wide, and smoke ‘em.

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                                    Originally posted by Cesar Rodriguez View Post

                                    I salute your curmudgeonly attitude - I agree.

                                    The problem with international sport is its always ruined by regimes exploiting victory for political purposes. Exhibit A: Miracle on Ice.

                                    As someone who studiously avoids mixing sport and politics its a real turn off.
                                    I don’t recall Jimmy Carter really exploiting the Miracle on Ice. ABC did.

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                                      and it was an insane David v. Goliath underdog moment as well as the actual amateur USA team v. the "amateur" Soviet team.

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                                        Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post

                                        I don’t recall Jimmy Carter really exploiting the Miracle on Ice. ABC did.
                                        Carters Olympic boycott of 1980 was a prime example of a politician using sport as a political tool.

                                        The US protested an invasion of a country it invaded 21 years later.
                                        Last edited by Cesar Rodriguez; 02-11-2019, 17:56.

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                                          If only we could revoke Irish passports!

                                          https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1190582469218775046

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                                            Originally posted by tee rex View Post
                                            I don't know if we're all seeing the same TV pictures, but that shot of the trophy being engraved before full time was a kicker. "South Africa" was already on, must have started before the last try.
                                            I was laughing out loud when I saw that. But then, I was in a really good mood.

                                            I think SA did surprise England by attacking them from the off. I guess the idea was that England would attack and SA try to smother their attacks, as they did against Wales. England had no idea how to respond to that, which surprised me. Of course, SA played a perfect game; there were so many breathtaking performances. Vermeulen was a wall and deserved is MOTM. Faf de Klerk was incredible; his positional play was a thing of beauty. When he came on, Kitshoff destroyed England's scrums. There was no weak link.

                                            And what makes me happy is that most of the players came from basic backgrounds. I was especially glad for Cheslyn Kolbe, whose father was a highly talented rugby player who plied his trade in the anti-apartheid league in the 1980s.

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                                              Originally posted by Cesar Rodriguez View Post

                                              Carters Olympic boycott of 1980 was a prime example of a politician using sport as a political tool.

                                              The US protested an invasion of a country it invaded 21 years later.
                                              Correct. But that wasn’t about the hockey. IIRC, the game against the USSR wasn’t even on live TV. That whole thing was unexpected and excitement about it built organically among fans and then ABC made the most of it.

                                              The US government has not historically done a lot with US national teams. They’ve left that to corporate sponsors and TV networks. There’s still plenty of jingoism and at times it’s really ugly, but our federal government doesn’t really support sports like other governments do. There’s public money for sports through the schools, but that’s not the same thing. It’s not necessarily better this way, but it’s different.

                                              The tradition of championship teams visiting the White House is relatively new, I think. I think it really started in the 80s and back then it was just the big pro sports. Now even teams like the NCAA women’s lacrosse champions come to the White House.

                                              It was never controversial before 2016.

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                                                Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                                                It was never controversial before 2016.
                                                Tim Thomas refused to go to the WH following the Bruins Stanley Cup win in 2011.

                                                My favourite Down Goes Brown joke:

                                                Tim Thomas: "Damn foreigners, coming here to take our jobs"
                                                Tuukka Rask: "I'm standing right here, dude."

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                                                  Carter and the ice hockey team was the lead story on CBS:

                                                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK1f-RZZJCU

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                                                    Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                                    Carter and the ice hockey team was the lead story on CBS:

                                                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK1f-RZZJCU
                                                    Yeah, but it wasn’t really planned-for and the government played no role in their success. Sure, he tried to tie his struggling campaign to their success after the fact - and if he hadn’t invited them to the White House, it would have looked like a snub - but it wasn’t part of a coordinated program. Nobody would ever accuse USA hockey of being well-organized, especially in those days.

                                                    Carter wasn’t in Lake Placid. I don’t recall him or Reagan attending any sporting events. I distinctly recall ABC setting up a call between him and the team in the locker room after the Finland game. The audio quality was patchy. Nowadays, if it looked like an Olympic team was going to generate a photo op, they’d send a member of the president’s family or the Vice President, at least. You all have the royal family for that.

                                                    The team going to the White House was news because that wasn’t so common back then.

                                                    Now every winner of every remotely major sporting event gets an invite, so it’s only news if they don’t go.

                                                    I’d forgotten about Tim Thomas*. But that was rare in those days. Now it seems every winning team has some no-shows.

                                                    *I respect his decision not to go. Nobody should feel obligated to “respect the office.” I just don’t respect his reasons for not liking Obama.

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