Tokyo Calling - Rugby 2019

[ad hoc]

Been a disappointing tournament for Italy, but they can go home with their heads held high after an extremely creditable draw with the All Blacks

[Wouter D]

I dont care either way about the outcome for embra Lawyers and Borders farmers, but all the worst people in my work are rugger fans, so if there's some way for Ireland not to qualify I'd like it to be visited upon those wannabe Deefer cunts.

Well, if Japan-Scotland gets cancelled, Ireland are sure to qualify for the next round, but Japan pick up enough points to top the group. This means that Ireland will meet New Zealand in the quarter finals, which makes it quite likely that once again the quarter final is where the Irish rugby team gets unceremoniously dumped out of the tournament.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Been a disappointing tournament for Italy, but they can go home with their heads held high after an extremely creditable draw with the All Blacks

If Italy had beaten the All Blacks with the same number of bonus points they’d have knocked them out. What? It might’ve happened...

[Satchmo Distel]

I watched the World Rugby press conference live (sad but true) and I thought their rationale and explanation was very clear.

It's definitely an either/or (game is on or off), no mucking about, no attempts to shift one but not another, and so any favouritism is avoided. Overall I'd say they have got it right - certainly a lot more right than the knee-jerkers on social media who have given it ten seconds of thought.

I didn't see the press conference but it seems very inflexible that they can't put games back by 24-48 hours given the QFs are not until the following weekend.

[Ray de Galles]

What a guy :

Eighteen games in 29 days for tournament fanatic

"The plan was based not on the best rugby, but on the best experience."

[Ray de Galles]

I didn't see the press conference but it seems very inflexible that they can't put games back by 24-48 hours given the QFs are not until the following weekend.

Same here on the press conference, was it explained why the alternate venues weren't used, even if that necessitated playing the game without (travelling) fans.

[Guy Profumo]

Alan Gilpin.

No.


It isn't the decision to call the game off that needs to be taken lightly.

Under the circumstances it's the decision to go ahead that needs the scrutiny


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49995604

[Bored Of Education]

Glad that the more-informed OTF RWC watchers have concurred with my general initial feeling. The announcement was literally astonishing to me* this morning especially when the finer details unfolded. I wasn't sure, until Ray mentioned it, that it was monsoon season which just makes the situation ridiculous. A real shame as it seems to have been a successful World Cup up until then.

Having said that, I haven't been able to get into it that much due to the early kick-offs on workdays, the unsatisfactory experience of rugby highlight and the lack of time to watch "as live" along with the inability, due to the time, of doing a Likely LAds. Although I don't expect World Rugby to change future world cup planning due to my experience, I hope that they look a little bit better at scheduling and allocation (along with alternative provisions) of future World Cups.

[Satchmo Distel]

They're lucky to a degree that "only" Scotland seem likely to be eliminated in this way rather than a big southern hemisphere side or even the hosts.

Imagine the shit-storm if weather affected which teams went through in the football version.

[tee rex]

The essential point about rescheduling or relocating games is that it could not be done in an ad hoc, case-by-case basis. That would treat teams differently and therefore favour teams unfairly, and it would inevitably give rise to conspiracy theories (and rugby is not short on those).

So the existing rule was applied, the one that has been in place for previous RWCs. Perhaps there was a case for changing the rule well before the tournament, but there's no case for ripping up the rule book halfway through.

[Cesar Rodriguez]

I know there are many sports affected by the weather (tennis, cricket, cycling, motor sports etc) but I cant recall a team sport where adverse weather not only caused the fixture to be postponed but cancelled entirely.

This is a terrible black eye for the sport of rugby. To have teams fates determined by unplayed games is absolutely ludicrous.

[Ray de Galles]

I know there are many sports affected by the weather (tennis, cricket, cycling, motor sports etc) but I cant recall a team sport where adverse weather not only caused the fixture to be postponed but cancelled entirely.

Well, it happens frequently in cricket - multiple games in the recent World Cup were cancelled and draws awarded just as has happened to the RWC games this week.

Which isn't to say I agree with it in this case.

[Sporting]

As an aside, how do spread betting companies deal with the cancellations, for example on bets made on total points scored in the tournament etc?

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

The SRU say they have found legal opinion that states that the tournament agreement, which they signed, which clearly states that cancelled games will not be rearranged but declared a 0-0 draw, is not valid. I love legal opinion like that. I want that kind of legal opinion to apply to me repaying my mortgage.

[Mumpo]

Imagine the shit-storm if weather affected which teams went through in the football version

Even if my team's elimination was at stake I'm not sure I'd want to play in a shit-storm

[blameless]

The essential point about rescheduling or relocating games is that it could not be done in an ad hoc, case-by-case basis. That would treat teams differently and therefore favour teams unfairly, and it would inevitably give rise to conspiracy theories (and rugby is not short on those).

Whatever happens on Sunday there'll be conspiracy theories anyway. The most popular one now is that if SA/NZ/Aus/Eng/Fra needed any of these games to be played they would have been, come hell or high water; for everyone else, the ruling body sticks to the letter of the law.

The SRU's "legal case" is clearly nonsense, but having no plan B and the hosts potentially getting a bye through to the knock-outs is not a good look for World Rugby.

[Satchmo Distel]

We're still left with the unfairness of some quarter-finalists having this weekend off whereas others will have have had to play their final pool games.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

I know in some sports that adopt unbalanced (ie rest weeks for some but not others) playoff systems, the week off can be seen as an advantage or a disadvantage. I think it comes down to mentality and match sharpness as much as physical readiness. Eddie Jones has already said England play better after a break so he's put that positivity in his players' heads.

[Etienne]

The RL playoffs are an illustration of that. I think Salford have played 3 or 4 post-season games to read the Grand Final, Saints have played 1. Obviously the system is based on the idea that it's better to be fresher than match sharp, but it can work both ways.

But this would be a perfectly normal situation in a cricket tournament.

[Ray de Galles]

The SRU's "legal case" is clearly nonsense, but having no plan B...

As we've discussed upthread, there appears to have been a plan B but it wasn't implemented.

The theories on why that is the case are many, from the idea that if all teams/matches couldn't easily be moved to alternate venues then none should to the theory that it's more cut & dried for insurance purposes to cancel altogether then rearrange.

[Ray de Galles]

Two interesting articles and points on the situation I read this morning :

Gregor Townsend’s faith in Scotland decider going ahead seems misplaced

As the coach (Townsend) does not have much choice; his team need to be ready. He is also so wrapped up in it that his perspective is understandably skewed. Townsend, unlike the officials making this decision – but exactly like most of the other British people out here – has not had a whole lot of experience weathering typhoons. And from this distance, his faith seems misplaced.

Three people died during Typhoon Faxai last month and it took more than a week to restore electricity and water to the worst-effected areas. Hagibis is expected to be three times bigger and if that forecast is accurate it seems unlikely Japan’s government will want 70,000 Scottish and Japanese rugby fans moving around Tokyo and Yokohama in the afternoon after what could turn into a major natural disaster.

Townsend said “it would be very unusual for a World Cup in any sport to be decided by a game being called off on one day. Let’s say you’re looking out of your hotel window at five o’clock on Sunday afternoon and it’s sunny, it would be strange if a game couldn’t take place.”

Which is true but it’s surely worth remembering that after the typhoon has blown through it is possible a lot of people are not even going to have any windows left to look out of. If the worst anyone has to deal with on Sunday evening is an empty sunlit rugby stadium it will be a blessing. Either way, the last thing anyone is going to be worrying about is whether they can get a game on or not.

Eddie Jones and England happy to hunker down on the coast at Miyazaki

Given England were up and out of their central Tokyo hotel in less time than it takes to say “this suits us fine mate”, it was an interesting moment for the tournament organisers to be flagging up the logistical difficulties of moving rugby teams around Japan. Jones, looking as upbeat as he has done since arriving, appears rather less than broken-hearted to be fleeing the typhoon zone and sidestepping the France game.

[Ray de Galles]

Anyway, we actually have some rugby on, Australia v Georgia has kicked off in heavy (but not typhoon) rain.

[Ray de Galles]

B team vs Uruguay?

A stronger team than I imagined, which points to the lack of depth in some areas :

15. Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets) (83 Caps)
14. Josh Adams (Cardiff Blues) (17 Caps)
13. Owen Watkin (Ospreys) (18 Caps)
12. Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets) (21 Caps)
11. Hallam Amos (Cardiff Blues) (20 Caps)
10. Rhys Patchell (Scarlets) (16 Caps)
9. Aled Davies (Ospreys) (19 Caps):
1. Nicky Smith (Ospreys) (33 Caps)
2. Ryan Elias (Scarlets) (8 Caps)
3. Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues) (18 Caps)
4. Bradley Davies (Ospreys) (65 Caps)
5. Adam Beard (Ospreys) (16 Caps)
6. Aaron Shingler (Scarlets) (23 Caps)
7. Justin Tipuric (Ospreys) (68 Caps) (Capt)
8. Aaron Wainwright (Dragons) (15 Caps)

Replacements:

16. Elliot Dee (Dragons) (25 Caps)
17. Rhys Carre (Saracens) (2 Caps)
18. Wyn Jones (Scarlets) (18 Caps)
19. Jake Ball (Scarlets) (39 Caps)
20. Ross Moriarty (Dragons) (37 Caps)
21. James Davies (Scarlets) (6 Caps)
22. Tomos Williams (Cardiff Blues) (12 Caps)
23. Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (47 Caps)


Two scrum halves on the bench to cover the entire backline, though I imagine Tips and/or Cubby will step back there if needed.

[Ray de Galles]

Out of interest, do we know what the officially stated contingency is for knockout games in the case of extreme weather?

[Antepli Ejderha]

A stronger team than I imagined, which points to the lack of depth in some areas :

15. Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets) (83 Caps)
14. Josh Adams (Cardiff Blues) (17 Caps)
13. Owen Watkin (Ospreys) (18 Caps)
12. Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets) (21 Caps)
11. Hallam Amos (Cardiff Blues) (20 Caps)
10. Rhys Patchell (Scarlets) (16 Caps)
9. Aled Davies (Ospreys) (19 Caps):
1. Nicky Smith (Ospreys) (33 Caps)
2. Ryan Elias (Scarlets) (8 Caps)
3. Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues) (18 Caps)
4. Bradley Davies (Ospreys) (65 Caps)
5. Adam Beard (Ospreys) (16 Caps)
6. Aaron Shingler (Scarlets) (23 Caps)
7. Justin Tipuric (Ospreys) (68 Caps) (Capt)
8. Aaron Wainwright (Dragons) (15 Caps)

Replacements:

16. Elliot Dee (Dragons) (25 Caps)
17. Rhys Carre (Saracens) (2 Caps)
18. Wyn Jones (Scarlets) (18 Caps)
19. Jake Ball (Scarlets) (39 Caps)
20. Ross Moriarty (Dragons) (37 Caps)
21. James Davies (Scarlets) (6 Caps)
22. Tomos Williams (Cardiff Blues) (12 Caps)
23. Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (47 Caps)


Two scrum halves on the bench to cover the entire backline, though I imagine Tips and/or Cubby will step back there if needed.

I'm surprised your surprised Ray. Only Tipuric is the big name to play instead of Cubby, as you predicted. Carre not starting is weird as they could have brought Rob Evans. Who's covering tight head?