Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Tokyo Calling - Rugby 2019

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
    How are you defining "homegrown"?

    It is an especially fraught concept in rugby.
    Obviously, I appreciate that. All the players being born in the country or a parent or grandparent being born in the country (so, perhaps, 'homegrown' isn't quite the phrase). For instance, Matsushima would qualify with a Japanese mother even without having moved back to Japan as a child.

    Don't get me wrong, I know Wales are as bad as most for shipping in players but i just think it is great that great teams like Argentina compete at this level with players that, as far as I can tell, are all born in Argentina with, I assume, mostly Argentinian parents.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post
      France playing some beautiful stuff, 14-3 up already. Argentina look like their development is going backwards, basic handling errors all over the place. If it's the humidity and a greasy ball it isn't hampering the French.
      Looking at the highlights, there seemed to be a lot of handling errors in a lot of play across the matches, not least the All Blacks/Springboks game. I actually wondered if it was some sort of new ball for the World Cup but the conditions might explain it.

      Comment


        Bored, perhaps you are focusing too much on the top teams, but I think that Fiji and Georgia meet those criteria, as may a number of the other "lesser" sides.

        Comment


          Yeah, but only if you get up to watch them. It appears the replays, even of the games that were on NBCSN, are only available on demand if you've paid.

          Comment


            Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
            Bored, perhaps you are focusing too much on the top teams, but I think that Fiji and Georgia meet those criteria, as may a number of the other "lesser" sides.
            Yeah, I just double checked the facts from last World Cup and Argentina were the only team where all the players were born (and raised) in the country and, as far as I can see, they have the same this World Cup. Answering my own question, Uruguay are also the same. Georgia and Russia all have players born in other countries but who have parents from that country (which, I of course, completely endorse as proof of nationality). Fiji, Tonga and Samoa all have players who were born in other countries but have parents from their home countries but crucially all have players who played through the Australian or New Zealand youth system and represented those countries at U18 level. Namibia's players were all born there but several moved out to other countries to play their youth rugby with one representing South Africa at U18 level.

            So, by the broader (grand)parent rule, quite a few teams qualify. By the more specific "homegrown" definition, only Argentina, Uruguay, Georgia and Russia.
            Last edited by Bordeaux Education; 21-09-2019, 22:59.

            Comment


              Maybe it is just me, but I find it perverse to "penalise" the Pacific Island teams for having their players taken by Australia and New Zealand at the same time that you penalise AUS and NZ for doing so.

              But then I find the entire concept to be problematic.

              Comment


                As I have said before to the troll on English cricket threads, it's a bit weird to start accusing players of not being "properly English" (or, you know, pick your nationality) when we'd think it was spectacularly racist if we said it to naturalised immigrants in any other circumstances. I know it feels a little grating seeing a van der Merwe from Georgia or Japan, but I think you have to pull yourself back from that reaction because otherwise you're making the racists' arguments for them.

                Comment


                  The concern is, I suppose, that a country will essentially hire ringers rather than invest in the talent in its own country. That's short-sighted.

                  On the other hand, maybe it doesn't matter. Insofar as sports are good for participants and society at large, the composition of a country's most elite of elite pro teams doesn't matter much.

                  Comment


                    One can have a reasoned discussion about "ringers", given the chequered history of the sport when it comes to players' qualifications, but the more narrow criteria Bored proposes seem to me to go much beyond that, if only because they capture a significant number of players who didn't move of their own volition as adults.

                    Comment


                      Just to be clear, I don't like ringers, and generally find the Qatari runners in the Olympics, for example, to be odious. But to start questioning it opens a massive can of worms about naturalisation criteria and what it means to be "properly [put demonym here]". I think you have to accept ringers as a consequence of not being an utter arsehole about immigration.

                      Comment


                        Agreed. I just think the rules should encourage federations to invest in their own countries. I don't know what that would look like, exactly, but I don't think where one's grandparents were born would enter into it at all.

                        Comment


                          I think it's massively problematic for the reasons SB gives. Where do we stand on Martina Navratilova, for example? If I become a Romanian citizen and unexpectedly* become very talented at something do I have to represent the UK? Or is it OK that I turn out for Romania?

                          (* Ok, impossibly)

                          Comment


                            The dominant RWC story in New Zealand is not the rugby itself but the problems faced by the new broadcaster, a telco instead of the usual TV networks. I don't subscribe myself, but other media have, with ill-disguised glee, been highlighting every streaming glitch and grumpy customer - and there appear to be plenty. Much muttering about "birthright of every Kiwi to watch the All Blacks", bandwagons being chased by politicians, etc. (All these issues were predicted months in advance, but no matter).

                            As a result the 3 games today have been hastily shifted to one of the free channels, so I'm able to watch without paying a cent. The 20th century is back, yay!

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by tee rex View Post
                              The dominant RWC story in New Zealand is not the rugby itself but the problems faced by the new broadcaster, a telco instead of the usual TV networks. I don't subscribe myself, but other media have, with ill-disguised glee, been highlighting every streaming glitch and grumpy customer - and there appear to be plenty. Much muttering about "birthright of every Kiwi to watch the All Blacks", bandwagons being chased by politicians, etc. (All these issues were predicted months in advance, but no matter).

                              As a result the 3 games today have been hastily shifted to one of the free channels, so I'm able to watch without paying a cent. The 20th century is back, yay!
                              I didn't realise that it's actually gone back to free to air, that's good news for all.

                              Comment


                                Italy about to beat Namibia but it wasn't that comfortable for them. 47-22 it finished.

                                Ireland Scotland up next.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post

                                  I didn't realise that it's actually gone back to free to air, that's good news for all.
                                  Well, good news for me, certainly. Not so much for those whose non-rugby Sunday night viewing has suddenly disappeared from the schedule. I don't expect many people plan their day around reruns of 8 out of 10 Cats Does Countdown, though.

                                  Comment


                                    Ireland looking to turn the screw early on against Scotland in a game the ITV pundits said was a pool decider. It's a possible or probable one but not definite.

                                    Comment


                                      3 tries and a 19-3 lead after half an hour. It's looking bleak for Scotland.

                                      In first world problems my HD is constantly playing up.

                                      Comment


                                        Scotland have been execrable, they'll be lucky to get out of the group if they don't hugely improve.

                                        Have the British commentators mentioned Watson's tournament being finished by two wild, illegal clearouts in the ruck?

                                        Comment


                                          *smashes dinner plate*

                                          Comment


                                            World Rugby lengthening the residency rule to five years will probably reduce the number of project players significantly. I think France has also introduced a rule that players for France have to be citizens, which is good because France used to make use of the residency rule quite a bit. Top 14 clubs sign players all over the world.

                                            Augustin Pichot moans about this constantly and it's obviously self-serving. He also doesn't seem to understand the concept that somebody whose parents are from X but was born in Y is a natural-born citizen.

                                            But it's hard to look at Bundee Aki, someone specifically recruited by Ireland to play for Ireland because he hadn't played for New Zealand yet, and not concede he has a point sometimes. Now they have to invest in that kind of player for five years, which probably makes it unreasonable most of the time.

                                            Comment


                                              Tonga just kicking it back to England, who can't believe their luck and cash in.

                                              Comment


                                                And they do it at the end to give England the bonus point. Grrr.

                                                Comment


                                                  [QUOTE=ursus arctos;n2201708]Maybe it is just me, but I find it perverse to "penalise" the Pacific Island teams for having their players taken by Australia and New Zealand at the same time that you penalise AUS and NZ for doing so./QUOTE]

                                                  I don't think I have been "penalising" or, indeed, criticising the Island teams or, indeed, anyone. Like cricket, the qualification process for international players has been like this for decades and there's no point in thinking it will go back. I was concentrating on the Pacific Islands only as we were discussing them and we all know that the big teams ship in loads of players from elsewhere so there was no point discussing Aus and NZ. My original statement was just based on the interesting - to me - fact that Argentina were the only team last WC and one of a few this time with "born and raised" players and, to an extent, that Argentina perform at such a high level with this in place. It would be like Athletic Bilbao consistently being in the to 4 of La Liga or something. Having said that, I am not even sure how purposeful a policy it is.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by tee rex View Post
                                                    The dominant RWC story in New Zealand is not the rugby itself but the problems faced by the new broadcaster, a telco instead of the usual TV networks. I don't subscribe myself, but other media have, with ill-disguised glee, been highlighting every streaming glitch and grumpy customer - and there appear to be plenty. Much muttering about "birthright of every Kiwi to watch the All Blacks", bandwagons being chased by politicians, etc. (All these issues were predicted months in advance, but no matter).

                                                    As a result the 3 games today have been hastily shifted to one of the free channels, so I'm able to watch without paying a cent. The 20th century is back, yay!
                                                    With the listing system here (similar to the UK's), all Ireland games are on RTE, with the others on the subscription service Eir Sport.

                                                    Comment

                                                    Working...
                                                    X