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    Autumn Rugby Tests

    They deserve a thread even if they're going to be between teams of walking wounded and fringe players. If for no other reason than because I am going to Wales v the All Blacks (one of the world's great sporting fixtures) and (peculiarly for me) England v Argentina.

    One question, how come English Premiership clubs can refuse to release Welsh players to the national team for the NZ game because it's outside the international window yet their English internationals will be facing Australia on the same day?

    Despite Gatland's characteristic loudmouthing about the quality of the English club competition I'd like us to have the options.

    #2
    Autumn Rugby Tests

    The RFU has an agreement with the Premiership clubs, the WRFU doesn't - simple as that.

    There was a silly situation at the weekend where Paddy Wallace couldn't play for Ulster, even though everybody wanted to see his matchup with D'Arcy with a view towards the internationals, because there was a liit on the number of games he could play before the internationals...

    Anyway, Ireland squad;

    Tommy Bowe (Ospreys); Neil Best (Northampton Saints); Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster); Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster), Tom Court (Malone/Ulster), Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)*, Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster), Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster), Gavin Duffy (Galwegians/Connacht), Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster), Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster), Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster), Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster), John Fogarty (DLSP Palmerston/Leinster)*, John Hayes (Bruff/Munster), Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)*, Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster), Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)*, Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster), Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster), Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster), Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster), Fergus McFadden (UCD/Leinster)*, Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster), Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster), Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster), Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster), Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster), Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)*, Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster), Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster), Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster), Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster)*, Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster), Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster), Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster), David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster), Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster), Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht)*.

    Some surprises there; Cave, Henry, Fogarty, McFadden, and all the Connacht lads. But it's a very big squad... which makes Kevin McLaughlin's omission all the more surprising.

    Three Tarf boys, plus God - not bad.

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      #3
      Autumn Rugby Tests

      Not really sure why Toner's been given a chance now, either - we do need to blood some locks, but I don't think he's played a games of any significance for Leinster since Hines arrived.

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        #4
        Autumn Rugby Tests

        Thanks Toro, I presumed the English Premiership's reasoning was just along the lines of "You're foreign" but was bewildered as to why the "It's not an international date" excuse was being trotted out. It's only Anglo-Welsh games that weekend after all.

        Er, what's the WRFU?

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          #5
          Autumn Rugby Tests

          Welsh players playing abroad are told to insist on a clause in their contract for international release. There are three designated international weekends in November but most sides have four games, it is up to the IRB to change that ruling.

          Do we have a chance?

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            #6
            Autumn Rugby Tests

            "a chance" of...?

            None of the players we might have wanted (Sweeney in particular) negotiated those releases though, unlike Wilkinson at Toulon but then again his leverage would have been significantly higher.

            I suppose it's no surprise when the WRU nearly ended up in court with even it's own regions on player releases for the game. It's just annoying that the club's response isn't more honest.

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              #7
              Autumn Rugby Tests

              a win?

              respectability?

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                #8
                Autumn Rugby Tests

                Where would you want Sweeney to play?
                He might be ok as a stand in but I don't think he's an international class player.

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                  #9
                  Autumn Rugby Tests

                  Harry Truscott wrote:

                  Er, what's the WRFU?
                  D'oh.

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                    #10
                    Autumn Rugby Tests

                    Fausto wrote:
                    Where would you want Sweeney to play?
                    He might be ok as a stand in but I don't think he's an international class player.
                    Two words; Gareth, Cooper. Or to give him his full name, Oh fucking hell, why did you do that Cooper?

                    Sweeney isn't a must start really but I (and Gatland it seems) would like him as an option that's been denied us for the All Blacks game.

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                      #11
                      Autumn Rugby Tests

                      What the fuck am I talking about? It's not Sweeney it's Peel! This is like my Flood/Noon confusion all over again.

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                        #12
                        Autumn Rugby Tests

                        The number of players injured and thus unavailable for England is staggering. The ever-increasing physicality of professional rugby is taking its toll.

                        Confused how Nick Kennedy has gone from playing in last season's Tests to about 7th choice lock this season.

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                          #13
                          Autumn Rugby Tests

                          I did wonder. Sweeney isn't a scrum half.
                          Peel plays in England. We can't have him. I've never known someone's career suffer so much because of a transfer. Maybe Michael Owen, but Peel was virtually irreplaceable 3 to 4 seasons ago.

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                            #14
                            Autumn Rugby Tests

                            England-Australia is a bit of a grindfest.

                            Wilkinson has scored all nine of England's points. Australia have dominated the second half but have got only a Giteau penalty to show for it, having twice made a balls of things when only inches from the England line.

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                              #15
                              Autumn Rugby Tests

                              Australia finally make their superiority pay with another Giteau penalty, after one of England's subs collapses a scrum a matter of seconds after he'd come on. 9-11.

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                                #16
                                Autumn Rugby Tests

                                Ashley-Cooper, who scored on this ground last year, does it again in the left-wing corner. Giteau adds the conversion to give Australia an 18-9 lead. This one's slipping away from England.

                                Cueto and Monye's combined efforts to stop Ashley-Cooper were absolutely risible, especially Cueto's.

                                Just like in last autumn's Tests, England simply can't open up the southern teams and create try-scoring chances against them.

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                                  #17
                                  Autumn Rugby Tests

                                  England will wear purple at the weekend;

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                                    #18
                                    Autumn Rugby Tests

                                    Jesus, that first half of Eng-Arg.

                                    When RU's boring, it's really, really boring.

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                                      #19
                                      Autumn Rugby Tests

                                      Italy - New Zealand drew 80,000 at the San Siro. I wonder how cheap the tickets are.

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                                        #20
                                        Autumn Rugby Tests

                                        Enjoyed Ireland's fightback. Were they favourites beforehand?

                                        Don't want to patronise them with plucky and all.

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                                          #21
                                          Autumn Rugby Tests

                                          Cracker of a 20-all draw between Ireland and Australia.

                                          Nice to see Rocky score one of theirs. O'Gara and O'Leary were absolutely rancid - I don't want to sound like the one-eyed Leinster fan I undoubtedly am, but Reddan and the Sex Machine must start next time.

                                          Good to see the Beast get capped. The scrum was under serious pressure, but I think Hayes was much more to blame for that. Ferris was immense.

                                          I'm starting to lean towards moving O'Driscoll to twelve and either putting Earls at thirteen, or putting him on the wing and moving Bowe inside. Though this may be moot if Luke Fitz's injury is as bad as it looked. What did they say on telly?

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                                            #22
                                            Autumn Rugby Tests

                                            Why on Earth... wrote:
                                            Jesus, that first half of Eng-Arg.

                                            When RU's boring, it's really, really boring.
                                            I watched the 50 mins of highlights of this. I don't want to think about how bad the 30 mins that they didn't show must have been. NZ must be worth putting a fair bit of money on to beat Eng next week.

                                            Aus really should have beaten Ire - Gitaeu missed a few straightforward kicks and then they just seemed to switch off completely for the Irish try at the end.

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                                              #23
                                              Autumn Rugby Tests

                                              Yeah, I mean Argentina were genuinely poor, and for most of the time England were worse. They had a couple of flashes of fluency in the second half, at the end of one of which they scored a try. But both sides played as if scared: kicking the ball to each other at every opportunity.

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                                                #24
                                                Autumn Rugby Tests

                                                Oh and a big up to Ireland for playing Geno by Dexy's when they scored some pts.

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                                                  #25
                                                  Autumn Rugby Tests

                                                  Can we all spare a moment's quiet reflection for those unfortunate enough to have attended the England v Argentina game, i.e. me.

                                                  It outdid my worst expectations of what a home England rugby match could be. From the teeth-grinding tedium of events on the pitch to the scenes in the stands. The biggest cheers of the first 70 minutes were for paper planes making it on to the field of play.

                                                  If I ever complain about Wales in international rugby again, refer me to the seventh level of sporting hell I suffered on Saturday. We just play a different sport and have a different sporting event altogether.

                                                  Only the shellshocked desperation of the English rugby fans I attended with made it worthwhile. Obviously all rugby supporters drink a huge amount but I see why it's inescapable at Twickenham.

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