HMV RIP?

[Satchmo Distel]

Difficult to see how the stores can survive:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...administration

[Benjm]

It'll be a shame from a historical point of view but I can't remember the last time I went into an HMV shop and bought something.

I did go onto their website yesterday, for the first time in years, and got as far as registering with a view to getting the Soft Cell box set which was a reasonable price. Deciding not to buy at the last minute may have saved some hassle by the look of it.

[Simon G]

I'm sure this is not true of every store, but I had the misfortune of having to go into the HMV in Gloucester about 6 weeks ago. The staff were some of the most unhelpful I've ever had to deal with and the way they spoke to a couple of elderly customers as well left me gobsmacked. They reminded me of a "Not the 9 o'clock News" sketch when Rowan Atkinson and Griff Rhys Jones take the piss out of Mel Smith who wants to buy a gramophone.

I was particularly taken aback by how they dealt with one customer whilst I was in the queue. They have a sort of bonus/membership scheme which gets discount on products. However, when they have priced products this is not clear in the slightest. A lady in her 60s attempted to buy something with a sticker on it at £20. When it was ran through the till it came up as £30. She was then told, quite abruptly, that the £20 price was for HMV members (Pure HMV if memory recalls). They asked if she wished to sign up so she could get the item at £20. She agreed to do so and went through the whole process with the lad behind the counter - after giving her name, dob, address and telephone number they put the thing through the till again and it was now £23. When she asked why it wasn't £20 as she had been told it would be, she was informed that this was the fee for signing up to Pure HMV - at no point before this was a fee mentioned at all.

Before the lady could even say anything, the supervisor, who had been watching the whole time then states - "It's £23 or £30 it's up to you, but can you hurry up!" At this point the lady basically told them to shove the item up their ass and stormed off. They then had the audacity to comment that she was in the wrong.

As the CD I'd bought was a click and collect, I got my item and went, but I also vowed that I would never step foot in that place again unless I absolutely had to. I get that it was a lunchtime, and close to Christmas, so it was a little busy, but it was clear from the outset that the lady was confused with their loyalty scheme and whatnot - they way they handled it was appalling. If their other stores were the same, then frankly good riddance to them.

[Sits]

As a notoriously late adopter of new technology, I guess the fact that 2018 has been the year when I finally moved away from DVDs and CDs, then these technologies are surely in their twilight. Both HMV and Virgin were pushed out of the market by the rise of the dominant JB HiFi in Australia. JB appear to have gradually reduced the amount of store space devoted to CDs, DVDs and games since they carry large and continually evolving stocks of household and personal entertainment and IT technology through most of the store. Plus helpful staff.

The sad part of the HMV demise personally is that my Dad’s old 78s (mostly ceramic Spike Jones) were all His Master’s Voice with their lovely old labels.

[Bored Of Education]

I'd imagine one of the first job losses will be the spokesman who used "tsunami" as a metaphor at this point.

[Fussbudget]

I'd be a bit sad to lose HMV as there's not really anywhere else in town to get new CDs and DVDs anymore, but I'll be absolutely gutted if it means Fopp goes as well.

[Patrick Thistle]

Simon's story isn't uncommon. I've had OK service at HMV but have also had some shoddy sneers. Staff could be aloof and condescending. And they were quite expensive, especially for new releases that were cheap in the supermarkets.

Virgin, Our Price and Woollies have all gone. WHSmiths barely stock any CDs or DVDs any more. It's not really surprising HMV have gone.

[Hot Pepsi]

I’m surprised that DVDs and CDs are still being manufactured in 2019 let alone that there’s a still a company expecting that demand for these things will support a chain of brick-and-mortar shops. The quote in that article suggesting that it’s taxes that are killing HMV is delusional.

I didn’t know there were any chains of “record shops” like that alive at all anywhere. They’re all gone here. Even before streaming and downloading, they were getting killed by Amazon and artists selling their CDs directly. With iTunes, Spotify, etc, they have no hope. And vintage record shops now do so much of their business online that having an actual shop is usually not worth it.

“High Street” retail’s only hope is to offer superior service and friendliness to what Amazon et al can offer. If they think that cutting staff or hiring shit staff is going to help them compete, they’ve got it backwards.

And some retailers are getting that and making the experience as pleasant as they can. As such, the places that are really screwed are retail chains that aren’t big enough to offer the selection of online retailers but too big to be very friendly and helpful. Circuit City is no more. Staples and Best Buy do offer good service, but I don’t know if they’ll exist in their current form in 20 years.

Of course, Wal-Mart, et al, are competing online too. Maybe they’ll eventually be *just* that.

The world is going to have a lot fewer real shops in the not too distant future and we’re not ready for it.

[Patrick Thistle]

Why aren't we ready for it? The collapse of brick and mortar store profitability is because buying patterns have changed incredibly in the past 20 years.

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

Oh Christ, all this talk about CDs and DVDs disappearing is really depressing. I've held out 100 per cent until now, but I can see I'm going to have to learn how to do what the kids do. "Download", is that the expression? MP3 or some such name for the kit? It pisses me off so much that I can't just keep doing what I'm used to.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

This story came on the News, and my Dad was waxing lyrical about all the various 78's he bought with the doggy on the label. I then asked him what was the first record he bought (Chris Barber's 1955 recording of High Society) and then played it for him on youtube. Then I asked him for any requests that he wanted, and we went through a list of old jazz recordings. And then after about half an hour, He says "I'm starting to see why HMV might be in a spot of trouble."

[ursus arctos]

Sometimes you are history’s greatest monster, man.

[Hot Pepsi]

Why aren't we ready for it? The collapse of brick and mortar store profitability is because buying patterns have changed incredibly in the past 20 years.

There’s a lot of real estate and pavement dedicated to retail that will soon be just an eyesore. Much of it already is. Will we tear it out and put in parks and homes?

And so many people want to preserve high streets and walkable neighborhoods and what not because it promotes social interaction and cohesion, but what is going to keep people coming to those places when all the shops are closed?

There’s an idea of “third places” - places other than home or work where people interact. Church membership is not what it was. Pubs are closing in the UK and we never had that culture in US anyway. So where will we run into our neighbors and aquaintances and practice being social? Clearly, social media isn’t serving this function of “social connection” the way it was promised.

[Hot Pepsi]

Oh Christ, all this talk about CDs and DVDs disappearing is really depressing. I've held out 100 per cent until now, but I can see I'm going to have to learn how to do what the kids do. "Download", is that the expression? MP3 or some such name for the kit? It pisses me off so much that I can't just keep doing what I'm used to.

You’ll be happier once you make the switch. It’s liberating.

I can see why people miss vinyl LPs, but there’s not much about CDs or DVDs - and nothing at all about cassettes or VHS - worth’s lamenting.

Why does everyone want to fill their house with stuff?

What is worth lamenting is the loss of stores where the staff were friendly and helpful and where people would meet-up and get recommendations and meet other fans or start bands and what not. But these chain stores were not usually like that anyway and that kind of vibe can be recreated if people are willing to work at it instead of assuming the free market will just magically provide it.

[Sporting]

Good points, but I for one enjoy delving into a row of CDs and choosing one to play; or browsing through shelves of books...and I like physical objects in any case for many reasons: their touch, their general asthetics, perhaps most of all the memories they convey.

[Patrick Thistle]

Plus, when the Internet collapses along with society you can rig a CD player up to a solar cell and play music. But only if you have it in physical format.

Seriously, though, in answer to HP, coffee shops seem to be going strong. There's a gaming shop near me with a cavernous gaming space where people meet up. HMV, like other retail behemoths, ignored the signs for too long. They went into administration six years ago but clearly didn't learn enough from that to shift towards the pleasant and desirable shopping experience that you rightly identify as the thing that will save brick and mortar stores.

And, yes, abandoned malls look hideous. Enterprising councils should use CPOs to commandeer them and then sell the sites to house builders.

[Jah Womble]

While I'm sure that most people can understand 'why' HMV/Fopp might have numbered days, there seems little acknowledgment anywhere that purchasing music is to many of us a greater experience than merely thinking of an artist and buying that artist's latest collection.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

The Carlisle branch is relatively small and is crammed full of stuff, which makes it difficult to actually find anything you want to buy. The bigger branches at least have some order to them, although they too are full of distracting tat.

I read a thread on Facebook yesterday in which it was claimed that HMV, being the last major High Street entertainment retailer (we don't all have a Fopp, unfortunately) was able to get most of its stock on sale or return terms, as companies and distributors relied on them for a 'High Street presence'. Therefore you can see the business model being to throw any old shit on the shelves and if it sells it sells. They aren't going to bother employing staff who know about the latest Julia Holter release (I use this example as it was the last CD I bought there, albeit in Birmingham - it would have been a long shot relying on the Carlisle branch to stock it - and even then it took some finding), they just want people to scan the barcodes on the latest Ed Sheeran and offer you some tat off the counter for £2.99.

We do have a 'vinyl cafe' in town which seems to be gaining a crowd, though I've got no intention of joining the vinyl revival so it's not for me.

[diggedy derek]

Just an aside on the CD format. Playing devil's advocate here, what possible reason is there for not liking them? They are small, they are cheap to make, the sound quality is essentially perfect, they can include a bit of useful information. You can own Abba's greatest ever songs in a compact and tough container that will essentially last for way longer than the average hard drive of cloud storage option. CDs are great. I'm not saying I don't enjoy streaming and bluetooth stuff, it's brilliant also. But I find it hard to imagine a world without CDs.

This is not to insist the collapse of HMV is a disaster – it's a poor shop that I stopped going to a long time ago. But it used to be great. If only they could have turned it around like they did with their former asset, Waterstones, which is to my reckoning an excellent bookshop these days.

[Sporting]

Just an aside on the CD format. Playing devil's advocate here, what possible reason is there for not liking them? They are small, they are cheap to make, the sound quality is essentially perfect, they can include a bit of useful information. You can own Abba's greatest ever songs in a compact and tough container that will essentially last for way longer than the average hard drive of cloud storage option. CDs are great. I'm not saying I don't enjoy streaming and bluetooth stuff, it's brilliant also. But I find it hard to imagine a world without CDs.

This is not to insist the collapse of HMV is a disaster – it's a poor shop that I stopped going to a long time ago. But it used to be great. If only they could have turned it around like they did with their former asset, Waterstones, which is to my reckoning an excellent bookshop these days.

I don't think you're playing devil's advocate so much as putting forward an excellent defence of CDs. [

[One caveat, though: they are not as semi-indistructable as once publicised and I have quite a few which skip or freeze mid-track. But maybe that's the CD player's fault as well.]

I will even go so far as putting forward a slight case for the cassette (slight pun there, I suppose!). I still have quite a few of us and putting one on from time to time, with no real possibility of skipping tracks, forces me to listen to songs that in the past I either missed or didn't take to much, and occasionally I'll realise that it wasn't so bad - or even that it was pretty good but lost in the headlights of better songs - after all.

[imp]

I've made a return to buying CDs this year, along with vinyl (while still doggedly holding on to my cassettes). I use Apple Music to try and get through as much new stuff as possible, and then buy something in a hard format if I really like it (at €15 per month for the whole family, I don't think it's a bad deal). Some stuff I delete after one listen - latest Spiritualized (dull) and Anna Calvi (shite) I gave a half hour each to yesterday after seeing them in some end-of-year list. Will definitely be investing in the new John Grant, though.

[Benjm]

Count me in with the CD fans. That they aren't fetishized to the same degree as vinyl only adds to the appeal.

It is much easier to buy directly from less well known acts and labels now, without messing around with postal orders and the like, which has pretty much eliminated the need for fingers crossed visits to HMV. Independents like Normans, in particular, and Rough Trade offer very good online services too.

The empty high street issue looks to be pretty intractable. In my home town, the Council bought one of the shopping centres only for M&S to pull out 12 months later. They will struggle to find another tent pole tenant but can't easily knock the place down because the railway station is built in to it. A couple of hundred metres away is another almost empty centre whose sole remaining tenant of any size is Debenhams. I'd offer fairly long odds on that branch surviving their forthcoming cull. That's a huge amount of space to try to fill with interesting independent enterprises but if the land is reclaimed for residential use it will be a big knock to the town having an identity other than as an outer dormitory for the nearby city (for scale, the town's population is 150,000+).

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

I still buy many CDs, new and second hand (one of the advantages of the streaming boom is that second hand CDs cost very little now). If it's an act I'm going to see live, I'll usually buy it from them (although I realise in some cases the venue takes a cut), if not I'll try and buy it from their website, after that it's Amazon for laziness and then HMV almost as a last resort. As I say, we've no other option locally.

[Duncan Gardner]

My 2 favorite shops in Benjm's hometown High Street: a stall selling Langos (Hungarian doughnuts, vegetarian option available) and a specialist in 70s retro fashions.

Me: I'll take the mustard corduroy flares and dayglo waistcoat please. Any chance of a kipper tie?

Shopkeeper: Ar bostin' Bab, milk and sugars?

[Benjm]

Yes, and the view across the music world as a whole seems to be that HMV going is a bad thing, despite its many deficiencies. There's no shame in shopping at HMV but they did nothing to maintain a position above that of last resort in our affections.

Edit: to Walt's.

Dunc is keeping his finger on the pulse of Walsall's retail scene so I can make do with remote monitoring!