Unguilty pleasures

[G-Man]

The Quietus has issued its list of "guilt-free pleasures".

I suspect it's just a slight subversion of the "guilty pleasures" shtick, though I do endorse the notion that there is no such thing as a "guilty pleasure". If you like it, own it. As the Quietus piece seems to say.

Still there are some bizarre inclusions there. In which universe has anybody ever felt guilty -- or has been made to feel guilty by sentient beings -- for enjoying the songs of Maze or The Waterboys? Why would they be included in a list of songs and artists that puts its focus on more universally reviled songs and artists?

And the idea that Baccara's majestic "Yes Sir, I Can Boogie" is "a European perspective on disco" is bizarre. Now, the song was written and produced by a novelty record hack who had a moment of genius, but that's besides the point. One strand of Disco was very much a European thing, with Germany -- where Baccara were produced -- pretty much the epicentre of the scene.

And whoever wrote about Wham!'s "Last Christmas" managed to shoehorn in two errors: the name of Band Aid and the title of "Wham Rap". Sloppy.

Anyway, had The Quietus asked you to contribute a song or songs, which ones would you choose?

[Crusoe]

Unguilty pleasures

Jon & Vangelis, "I'll Find My Way Home"

[Toby Gymshorts]

Unguilty pleasures

EDIT: Assuming that was a terribly clever joke about this thread being in the wrong forum.

[Crusoe]

Unguilty pleasures

Actually, the suggestion in that article of Haddaway's "What Is Love?" is a magnificant one. It's a great song. Recently used to amusing effect in a spaceship chase scene in Saints Row IV.

A few more that spring to mind:

Jeff Wayne, "Eve of the War"
Starlight, "Numero Uno"
Sydney Youngblood, "If Only I Could"
Londonbeat, "Thinking About You"

[treibeis]

Unguilty pleasures

Ain't No Pleasing You - Chas & Dave

[Crusoe]

Unguilty pleasures

Does Oran Juice Jones' "The Rain" count as an unguilty pleasure, or a genuinely good song?

[Reed John]

Unguilty pleasures

Crusoe wrote: Actually, the suggestion in that article of Haddaway's "What Is Love?" is a magnificant one. It's a great song. Recently used to amusing effect in a spaceship chase scene in Saints Row IV.

That song is often known here as the SNL Douchebags in the Club Sketch song.
This is just one of the many times they used the same gag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VAagXsxX6I&list=RD_VAagXsxX6I&feature=pla yer_detailpage

And then Pepsi made an ad out of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVYzxxgKXTY&list=PLA45D675CB536A6F2&index= 6

They made a movie about about these characters called Night at the Roxbury. It sucked, apparently. No surprise. Hard to make a whole film out of a single stupid visual joke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuf2b9wkZR4&index=7&list=PLA45D675CB536A6F 2

[Crusoe]

Unguilty pleasures

I'll not rush to see that one then...

[caja-dglh]

Unguilty pleasures

.

[Incandenza]

Unguilty pleasures

Taylor Swift, "I Knew You Were Trouble"

[Borracho]

Unguilty pleasures

Peter Gabriel -- Big Time.

There is probably no other song that sums up the 1980s so comprehensively, both musically and spiritually. I have to say I love the pointillist, Scritti Politti-esque production job.

[Tony C]

Unguilty pleasures

Well, yes, this is a difficult area; what might be considered a guilty pleasure, why would you feel guilty about it and who decides anyway?

If you are broadly talking about music that is considered 'uncool' then my shameless devotion to the work of James Taylor, Crosby, Stills and Nash and Jack Johnson's 'In Between Dreams' album might fit the bill here. I think Barry Manilow has a wonderful voice and "Somewhere Down The Road" moves me as much as any piece of music I can think of.

I was once rounded upon on OTF for expressing a like for Zero 7, too. This can be a very unforgiving place.

[Reed John]

Unguilty pleasures

Yeah, it doesn't usually mean anything except that you like something that's uncool.

Having said that, there are people whose opinions about music are kinda dumb, sometimes demonstrably so. Like people who think Jim Morrison was really a great poet or anyone who derive deep meaning from some of the Backstreet Boys' lyrics. And kids in particular tend to be really impressed with stuff that's very derivative until they get clued into the better stuff it was derived from. Sometimes.

But none of those people would ever feel "guilty" about that. Guilt requires that you know better.

Music is, after all, just sounds. It's abstract and the emotions or ideas it evokes vary widely depending on the listener's culture, history, personal experiences, etc. I've heard people try to make arguments for why certain music - usually classical or jazz - is "objectively" better than, say, hip hop or rock, but none of these arguments bears up, as far as I can tell. Because they usually boil down to "it's got more notes." I fail to see how that proves that it's "better," because, if nothing else, it is pretty clear that people who listen to classical and jazz are not necessarily better people than those who don't.

The concept of "guilty pleasures" may apply more appropriately to film and TV. There's stuff that I watch that I know, objectively, is kinda shit and therefore I sometimes feel, usually later on, that I should have spent that time doing something more edifying or productive - at least watching a film or a program that engages more of my mental faculties. But I've accepted that my brain cannot be running at full speed all of the time and sometimes it's nice to let it rest a bit with some stuff that's entertaining but not too challenging. But to call that "guilt" would be going too far.

Perhaps we ought to feel guilty about enjoying really violent material or anything that invites us to root for the villain and porn is a bit morally suspect because of how it objectifies women, etc, although that's a huge topic for another day.

And, I'd assert, the people who watch certain reality TV shows probably ought to feel guilty for turning the troubles of the mentally ill into entertainment. But that's also another topic.

[multipleman78]

Unguilty pleasures

I think Rick Astley has one of the finest voices in the history of British pop music. If he had come along in the X Factor era i think he could have had a longer run at the top than he did in the late 80's.

[My Name Is Ian]

Unguilty pleasures

Seconded on their proposal of Call Me Maybe, which is an absolutely magnificent pop song and one which I'm writing a eulogy about very shortly.

There's a lot of this sort of stuff from the 1980s, but I find it hard to categorise, really. I Can't Wait by Nu Shooz is, in my humblest, a great, great pop song and always spreads a huge smile across my face when it turns up in my phone's shuffle list. I think it might be something to do with Stock, Aitken and Waterman, though, so should I feel guilty over that?

To he honest, though, I don't think I'm precious enough about music to feel guilty about listening to anything.

[Lucia Lanigan]

Unguilty pleasures

They did ask me, and I wrote about Five Star in that piece. Safe ground there, I think, as no one except me seems to have had a good word to say about them ever.

The main problem with saying what's a guilty pleasure and what's not is that the idea's daft and relative in the first place. I remember one techno producer I knew in the 90s being really embarrassed about owning a Spiritualized record, cause they were "indie" with all that entails. People could be right dildos about music back then.

[Patrick Thistle]

Unguilty pleasures

Midnight Memories by One Direction is an OK album. I have listened to it more than once. It's good music to wash the dishes to, if nothing else. But I reckon its as least as good as most 'classic pop'.

[matt j]

Unguilty pleasures

As someone so eloquently put it on OTF many years ago: Guilt is for suckers.

MMMBop and Call Me Maybe are both just great pop songs.

Maze? Why would people feel even remotely guilty about Maze. That's like feeling guilt about the Commodores, or Earth, Wind, and Fire.

As far as the songs you like by 'uncool' artists/bands. I honestly don't know what's cool and uncool anymore. I like what I like, so I'm not sure I understand the question.

Are Boston deemed 'uncool' now? More Than a Feeling and Don't look Back are fantastically good (no matter how much you've heard them and how overproduced they probably were).

Is Steve Miller cool or uncool? At least three absolutely killer tracks.

Is Disco cool or uncool now? And specifically the writing of the Gibbs? Grease and Stayin' Alive are brilliant fucking tunes.

I know that Big Country are mostly unliked (and probably 'uncool'), but I love them. Midnight Oil and Fishbone are both still in my favorites pile.

I love Ella Fitzgerald, even her (admittedly) cheesy covers of the Beatles and Sunshine of Your Love.

Is World Music cool or uncool now? Is liking some Bob Marley tracks something that will get me looked down upon?

Is Peter Gabriel actually considered uncool? I mean - Sledgehammer, uncool?

I like Mc Frontalot. I like Jonathon Coulton. I like Tool. I like K. Flay, Wilco, and The Gothic Archies. I'm not sure any of those would be considered 'cool'.

I still love The Bangles' Hazy Shade of Winter and Manic Monday.

I have an LP version of the Paint Your Wagon soundtrack. It has Lee Marvin and Clint Eastwood singing. I love it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTymtAbaG08

(Obligatory Simpsons link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jciWGFVIOM)

[delicatemoth]

Unguilty pleasures

Ike Turner, Gary Glitter, Buju Banton all spring to mind as guilty pleasures. Phil Spector? Thank goodness Skrewdriver were crap.

[Reginald Lorenzo]

Unguilty pleasures

I can't help thinking that Reed John's second and fourth paragraphs were complete contradictions. The former states that some music fans are dumb, but the latter asks why some music fans judged to be better than others.

Unguilty pleasure? Vincent by Don McLean.

[G-Man]

Unguilty pleasures

IIRC, the original "guilty pleasures" concept, with the compilation CDs and VH-1 specials, referred to what is often called the Yacht Rock scene. If it was softish rock music backed by jazz fusion musicians and involved probable consumption of cocaine, it qualified for the "guilty pleasure" thing.

Well, I love all that stuff. Boz Scaggs,Ambrosia, Player, Michael McDonald, Toto, Hall & Oates, Ace, some of Kenny Loggins ("Heart To Heart" is fantastic) and so on. And Jay Ferguson's "Thunder Island". What a song!

And I've long said that Barry Manilow is due rehabilitation. Not all of it, but the man was a good singer and an excellent arranger.

[Lucia Lanigan]

Unguilty pleasures

delicatemoth wrote: Ike Turner, Gary Glitter, Buju Banton all spring to mind as guilty pleasures. Phil Spector? Thank goodness Skrewdriver were crap.

That's a really good point. Perhaps we can also have "Not Guilty" pleasures like R Kelly, who definitely wasn't guilty because the court said so.

[Reed John]

Unguilty pleasures

Reginald Lorenzo wrote: I can't help thinking that Reed John's second and fourth paragraphs were complete contradictions. The former states that some music fans are dumb, but the latter asks why some music fans judged to be better than others.

Because there's more to "opinions about music" than liking vs. not liking.

And, I suppose, most of what I'm talking about really comes down to lyrics.

If you say you like The Backstreet Boys' "I Want It That Way," it's hard to argue with that. It certainly has a lot to like, I suppose. But if you say the lyrics are brilliant or incisive, then you're on much thinner ice.

You are my fire
The one desire
Believe when I say
I want it that way

But we are two worlds apart
Can't reach to your heart
When you say
That I want it that way

[Chorus:]
Tell me why
Ain't nothin' but a heartache
Tell me why
Ain't nothin' but a mistake
Tell me why
I never wanna hear you say
I want it that way

I mean, I doubt anyone in the band could really explain what that means. Which wouldn't put them in especially exclusive company in the history of pop, so no shame. But still. It's nonsense. I'm willing to be proven wrong on that, but I'm pretty confident.

Same with the Jim Morrison thing. I mean, c'mon. Really. I am the Lizard King? What in the actual fuck. But having said that, some of their tunes are boss.

Somebody can say that they really like Green Day and I don't think there's a completely coherent argument that can be mounted as to why they shouldn't. But if they want to argue that Green Day are highly original, then there is hard evidence that they are not. And, just based on my own and others experience, I would predict that the kids (even kids I know now who weren't born when Dookie was big) who say they love Green Day would probably like them less in relationship to Husker Du, Wire, Stiff Little Fingers, The Ramones, among others if and when they were ever exposed to those. I can't say that they absolutely ought to feel that way, just that I suspect they will.

But I can say categorically that nobody should like KISS. At all. For one, Gene Simmons is an ubercunt.

[hawkvshandsaw]

Unguilty pleasures

Two words - David Gray

[hawkvshandsaw]

Unguilty pleasures

(I think the guy's got a gorgeous voice, but I'm a 21-year-old bloke and the only people I know who buy his music are mums).

Somewhere Only We Know by Keane is a very very good pop song by a pretty awful band.