Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

[Come along, Min]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

needlessly implying I'm a disco apologist who cant effin rickroll is the act of a chuffing man-part

The Clash - The Magnificent Seven and it's dub was a choice cut with some of the classier disco DJ's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlz03yVSWyc

the thing with disco is it loosely describes a genre of based of kind of soul music but DJ's (good and bad) of all kinds would also have mixed the latest "disco" hits of the day with whatever music catered to the crowd in front of them, whether that was pop, punk, early rap, soul.

disco allows/allowed for that.

[matt j]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

"There are genres of music."

...

Thinking about what I'd define now as disco (and this idea of 'Disco culture' versus 'Disco music'), and as Reed said above, the distinction is pretty arbitrary. Earth, Wind, & Fire are disco. If that's disco, it can't suck. Even the the quintessential disco track, (I'd say) 'Stayin' Alive' is a fucking tune all across the board. Now there is some shit that is disco music, and it probably doesn't take much effort to come up with a dozen popular tracks off the top of your head that you would burn in the middle of a baseball diamond if given a chance.

I have some Duke Ellington tunes that rock. I mean, really, if it was a guitar rather than a horn, it would rock hard.

For some music (it seems) the further away from it you are, the easier it is to cluster into a genre. "Jazz". "Blues". "Classical". But even what we call classical music, (J S Bach's works, just as an example), stole, borrowed, and adapted from the popular music of the time. And reading up on some of Bach's and Mozart's works, and it's widely agreed they would improvise along chord changes for live performances. What would we call that now?

So, fuck genre. Why are we obsessed with it? (By we, I really mean record stores, itunes, google play, etc...)

[Stumpy Pepys]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

adams house cat wrote: To me The Doors are poster children for the greatest hits collection. That's what I have and is all I want.

Thing is though, the greatest hits collection has about three album's worth of stuff on it (and they only made six LPs). And it doesn't include Moonlight Drive, Love Street, Wishful Sinful or Unhappy Girl. That's quite an impressive hit rate.

The Doors, Strange Days and LA Woman are all great. And there's another fine album to be fashioned from the remaining three.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

Indeed. Also you'd absolutely have to include The End, When the Music's Over and, IMO, Five to One. That's one album's worth right there.

[Jah Womble]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

Rick Wakeman was of course the reason punk had to happen.

I suspect he'd be the first to admit that these days.

Some tit will be along in about three minutes to tell you that The Clash were a second rate pub rock band.

Even if that were true, I don't see that as a problem.

Quite. Some of us happen to like second-rate pub-rock bands. The UK musical shores* were awash with them in 1976 - and thank the good Lord for that.

(*Especially at Canvey Island.)

[Come along, Min]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

I think I know what you're saying Mat (It feels you might start saying there's only two types of music good & bad in your argument if you carried on - which is sensible enough). For me though, the main reason for defining a genre is so people who like how a particular tune makes them feel find it easier to find other types of music which might make them feel the same way.

I always find the edges of a genre bleed into the others. If you really love a type of music you eventually end up discovering most other types anyway. I've fallen in and out of love with types of sounds. I used to love reggae but I barely bother with it anymore. Or at least for the last few years anyway.

Genres are good for lists and compilations too. Although I've really got out of the habit of doing that since the availability revolution.

[G-Man]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

Reed John wrote: I waded into this - poorly, it now appears - because while I don't have a problem with other people liking disco, it would be equally wrong to go too far the other way and hold that we all must appreciate the greatness of disco in the way that certain people insist that unless we appreciate the greatness of jazz or classical, we're worthless unsophisticated cretins.

And I have, at times, felt that attitude coming from certain quarters about disco. Not so much on here, but I've seen those various VH1 docs on the disco age and a lot of its proponents seem to believe that those of us who really don't like it are just racists or homophobes. That's wrong twice, because there's loads of music by people of other races and sexual orientations that I do like and even if I only happened to like music by white straight men, it wouldn't therefore follow that I have anything against other kinds of people as people.

Reed, you cannot be lumped in with the white types in their Styx and Lynyrd Skynyrd t-shirts who drove the Disco Sucks movement, because your aversion springs from a different well.

I do buy into the argument that the reaction to disco was, to some extent, informed by racism and homophobia. Disco was revolutionary; black music broke out and crossed over on its own terms, without the grooming by a development department, and disco brought the gay underground to the surface.

Of course that felt like a cultural threat and insult to some white people, with the added dimension of musical snobbery by people who thought "Freebird" represented the apex in musical history.

Anyway, this reflection on Comiskey and disco speaks for me.

[Reed John]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

the thing with disco is it loosely describes a genre of based of kind of soul music but DJ's (good and bad) of all kinds would also have mixed the latest "disco" hits of the day with whatever music catered to the crowd in front of them, whether that was pop, punk, early rap, soul.

You forgot film scores in that list.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-OPhGYggjQ

[Reed John]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

I think this is the link you meant to post, G-Man. And it's spot on.

http://www.halfhearteddude.com/2008/04/the-disco-inferno/

[Reed John]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

And, BTW, Styx really sucked. Except Mr. Roboto, which is ridiculous but catchy.

[MsD]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

Luke R wrote: needlessly implying I'm a disco apologist who cant effin rickroll is the act of a chuffing man-part

The Clash - The Magnificent Seven and it's dub was a choice cut with some of the classier disco DJ's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlz03yVSWyc

the thing with disco is it loosely describes a genre of based of kind of soul music but DJ's (good and bad) of all kinds would also have mixed the latest "disco" hits of the day with whatever music catered to the crowd in front of them, whether that was pop, punk, early rap, soul.

disco allows/allowed for that.

Disco was meant primarily for people to dance, and it's not easy to dance to the Clash. I went to dance clubs where they did indeed play the Magnificent Seven and Rock the Casbah, and men would sort of waddle on the spot to it. I suppose it got them dancing, before rave.

[Come along, Min]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

Sounds about right, doesn't really get me moving either. I was it using more to illustrate a point about Disco's pollination into other non-typical areas.

Apparently it was one of Larry Levan's favourites, so it still has it's place.

[slackster]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

I fucking loved Disco, Essex Soul, Caister weekenders and Jazz-Funk. it was Party Central.

Re The Doors. I recently saw a tribute band (Doors Alive) run through the greatest hits at a smallish local venue, and it was great. What surprised me was how many teens and twenty-somethings were there: the legend of Jim and his crew still generate a lot of interest.

[George]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

Morrison's grave in Père Lachaise was for many years permanently surrounded by teenagers smoking reefer, and maybe it still is but I can think of few 'canon' bands whose stock as fallen as badly as that of The Doors in recent times.

Apparently it was one of Larry Levan's favourites, so it still has it's place.

The title of 'Garage Classic' seems to get bestowed on ever more tracks as the years go by though.

''Dance Yourself Dizzy by Liquid Gold? Yeah, Larry loved it. Used to play it just before the Sharon Ridley at the end of the night''

[Calvert]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

reefer

Er, morning, constable.

[Come along, Min]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

@George

He was known for a long set or two, so there might have been a little filler.

However. If you had said Liquid Liquid I might have believed you but I can tell that's a bare-faced lie as they wouldn't segue at all, completely different feeling too. Last night at the Paradise Garage - I was there man.

Just played Sharon Ridley - Changin. Thanks.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

I can think of few 'canon' bands whose stock as fallen as badly as that of The Doors in recent times.

See this is the kind of comment that perplexes me. What does The Doors "stock" consist of, how is it measured and who's doing the measuring?

[Cal Alamein]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

Count me as another who is perplexed. The Doors were a unique band for the time who made some quality songs. Their front man was a loose cannon who has been ridiculously over exposed but that does not diminish the band 's importance.

[George]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

I have no dog in the argument about how good or bad The Doors were you understand. It's just my observation that the amount of non-complemantary opinion on the band seems to have grown over the years, compared to what it was say two decades ago.

Morrison's more buffonish tendecies definetly seem to be highlighted more often, which is slightly unfair (no matter how bad the poetry was) because the list of lead vocalists who just happen to be pillocks is a long one. Few looked as good as him though that's for sure.

[Jah Womble]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

The revisionist sneering at the Doors is a bit of a joke, really. Morrison and co had more than enough good moments to allow them one or two decidedly off-ish ones. And let's be honest, many bands of similar standing have committed far worse to vinyl and continue to get by without censure.

[George]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

That pretty much sums it up, especially the last sentence.

[Bootleg Mark Chapman]

Great Myths/ Accepted wisdom in music history

António Pulisão é um gênio wrote:

Ringo was the musical weak link of the Beatles.

I love Ringo's drumming especially in the latter albums. Maybe it's my imagination but I'm sure I've heard this one now and then.

Was it because he held his sticks incorrectly?

If he was responsible for the drumming arrangement on Tomorrow Never Knows, then he may have single-handedly invented house music. That track is, quite literally, decades ahead of its time.

From what I remember from reading Ian MacDonald's Revolution in the Head, Paul McCartney arranged the drumming for that track.