Basing your sound on another band's record

[Jah Womble]

Interpol were knocking off Joy Divisions. Still might be.

Interpol have always sounded far more like The Chameleons to me. Editors definitely borrow heavily from JD - Tom Smith had Ian C's vocal off pat, or at least appeared to think he did.

Some others:

A lot of folk believed that early Jamiroquai were a straight Stevie Wonder rip-off, whereas I'd probably cite someone like Beginning of the End (of Funky Nassau fame) for their blueprint.

Martin Rossiter of Gene seemed to channel Morrissey somewhat.

New Edition were fairly open about their Jackson 5ive stylings. (As were Sister Sledge on their Mama Never Told Me debut.)

[Satchmo Distel]

Funky Nassau sounds like a James Brown* track to me, although I can see how Jay Kay had studied the vocal. Sly Stone is an influence that I think Jay Kay has copped to.

There are clearly a ton of Bob Marley imitators; where would you start?

Did Joe Jackson rip off Elvis Costello & The Attractions? Possibly in 1977-78 but I think "It’s Different for Girls" (1979) was such a clever, intricate track that it surpassed anything on Costello's first 3 albums.

*Brown is arguably the most ripped-off artist ever, both via sampling and copying. Stevie would be in the top three, alongside Bob Marley I'd guess.

[Jah Womble]

I'd agree with your earlier points there.

Jackson certainly borrowed from Costello on the track Fools in Love, which is basically a different song written to the sig of Watching the Detectives. Perhaps also from around that time, The Jags, of Back of My Hand-fame.

Other acts channelling The Doors: Echo & The Bunnymen, on their slower tracks where McCulloch's vocal very much resembles Morrison; and also The Stranglers in their more psychedelic moments (see: Dave Greenfield's Manzarek-esque keyboard meanderings on Walk On By).

[gjw100]

You can certainly pick up elements of Stevie Wonder in Jay Kay's vocal delivery, but in terms of musical influences I would be more inclined to cite the US jazz/funk acts of the mid-70's - Herbie Hancock and The Headhunters, George Duke, Roy Ayers and numerous CTI records alumni, as well as the slightly later crop of British bands such as Level 42, Light Of The World and Incognito.

[Jah Womble]

I know he's a bit of a pranny, but I'd suggest that Jay Kay and Jamiroquai had a bit more energy to their performance than any of those UK jazz-funk acts, certainly at the start. (And I don't especially dislike those bands, either.)

I can hear something of those older influences, yes.

[ale]

[QUOTE=Jah Womble;n2554073]I think it's fairly common knowledge that Abba 'borrowed' ideas from Roy Wood and Wizzard to compose Waterloo. (Elvis Costello then borrowed from Abba for the piano motif in Oliver's Army - which, of course, he is now disowning.)




Glen Matlock is open about nicking the chords from SOS when composing Pretty Vacant.

[gjw100]

I remember British guitarist Robin Trower receiving a fair bit of stick from some quarters of the music press for being a Jimi Hendrix copyist (never more so than on this track). To be honest there are far worse musicians than Hendrix to copy from and. if that was his intention, Trower made a pretty decent fist of it. (Bassist Jimmy Dewar had a great voice too).

[WOM]

I know he's a bit of a pranny,

A what now?

[ursus arctos]

UK, slang, dated) The female genitals. noun. (UK, slang) A fool; an idiot.

[Sits]

There were specific circumstances for that, which I'm sure we've covered (no pun intended) it on here before (you might even have raised it ?):

Behind the music: Can artists stop people from covering their songs? | Pop and rock | The Guardian

In Australia, there was "The Great Radio Ban of 1970", when big record companies demanded a fee from commercial radio in return for the use of their copyrighted material. Radio refused and all British and Australian records controlled by the majors were dropped from commercial airplay. The ban only lasted for six months, but resulted in independent labels releasing covers of all the big hits with local artists. Many Australians who were around at the time had no idea that In the Summertime was a Mungo Jerry song, they thought it was by the Mixtures. And they thought Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head was a John Farnham original.

Conversely, as discussed on the recent Chart Music, Chicory Tip's "Son of My Father" was a copycat cover of the Giorgio Moroder original, and they went into some detail about how at the time you couldn't release a cover unless the original had been played on UK radio, so they got a sympathetic presenter on local radio in Kent to play it once, so that they could release their cover.

This goes a long way to explaining why so much Australian music of the 70s and early 80s is <sweeping generalisation alert> so bad. See Skyhooks.

It might also explain why, if the song Funky Town comes up, people say “Oh yeah Pseudo Echo” and nobody has heard of Lipps Inc.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

It might also explain why, if the song Funky Town comes up, people say “Oh yeah Pseudo Echo” and nobody has heard of Lipps Inc.

Heh, if I still had it I'd post a text I sent to my mate on this very subject, when the Pseudo Echo version came on a TOTP re-run I was watching one night when I was pissed. I was livid.

[Jah Womble]

ursus arctos
I’ll be honest, I wasn’t thinking it meant the former - but in truth I could’ve figured that easily enough…

[Sits]

Heh, if I still had it I'd post a text I sent to my mate on this very subject, when the Pseudo Echo version came on a TOTP re-run I was watching one night when I was pissed. I was livid.

On TITP? How did they get on there? I distinctly remember only ever being aware of Lipps Inc. until reaching these shores.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

They somehow got to No. 8 with it in 1987, and as they say on Chart Music, they never troubled the singles chart again.

[Sits]

Staggering.

[3 Colours Red]

They somehow got to No. 8 with it in 1987

I blame Paul Hogan, Barry Humphries and possibly Neighbours.

[Satchmo Distel]

I think it's fairly common knowledge that Abba 'borrowed' ideas from Roy Wood and Wizzard to compose Waterloo. (Elvis Costello then borrowed from Abba for the piano motif in Oliver's Army - which, of course, he is now disowning.)

I think that borrowing was done by Steve Nieve, who brought the motif to Costello, although Costello takes the composer credit, so technically he nicked it in terms of being the main financial beneficiary (which in turn raises a question about how royalties reflect power in a band rather than who does what: Nieve just couldn't risk getting sacked for asking for a composer royalty).

'Disowning'? I'm not sure he thinks it's a bad song (albeit nowhere near his best), just that it inevitably and embarrassingly gets misinterpreted. I think 'retiring' would be accurate; the song has expired as a useful public track, becoming instead an albatross, and we will need to imagine a world in which people don't misinterpret lyrics before it could ever come back.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-59950583

However (and I've had this debate with various people) there's the question of how up your own arse you'd have needed to be in 1979 not to know that people are going to hear that word and say "WTF?". I wouldn't imagine that more than a tiny fraction of listeners would have got the reference to anti-Irish racism, so his being innocent of racist intent doesn't totally excuse having a record that many black people would have heard as a slur.

I know 1979 was a different time but it wasn't like a white guy could say that word even then and not be asked serious questions. Then, of course, he used the word about Ray Charles just a couple of months or so later and you could forgive people for thinking he adopted that word in order to be an edgelord in the song.

[Jah Womble]

Yes, fair enough - ‘retiring’ the song is the more accurate expression.

Regrettably, as you suggest, the word seemed to float around Costello’s universe during 1979. Unfortunately I do recall very clearly its common usage at that time: one of my classmates used it in an extremely offensive manner during the school disco that year. I was shocked, but I don’t recall much fuss being made about it otherwise. Not good times.

[Jah Womble]

It might also explain why, if the song Funky Town comes up, people say “Oh yeah Pseudo Echo” and nobody has heard of Lipps Inc.

Hmm, not too sure about that - Lipps Inc is still very much the ‘go to’ version. I’ve heard it a couple of times in the past year (by accident), whereas I doubt I’ve heard Pseudo Echo* since its release. Surely nobody gives a monkey’s about that tepid remake?

*I'm sure they were very kind to their mothers, etc, but that really was a sh*te name for a band as well. Sounds like what a fake, skinny-tied US new-wave band would’ve called itself around 1981. (I appreciate that that’s a very specific put-down, but there it is.)

[Sits]

Hmm, not too sure about that - Lipps Inc is still very much the ‘go to’ version. I’ve heard it a couple of times in the past year (by accident), whereas I doubt I’ve heard Pseudo Echo* since its release. Surely nobody gives a monkey’s about that tepid remake?

*I'm sure they were very kind to their mothers, etc, but that really was a sh*te name for a band as well. Sounds like what a fake, skinny-tied US new-wave band would’ve called itself around 1981. (I appreciate that that’s a very specific put-down, but there it is.)

I didn’t make it clear; I was talking about Australia specifically.

[Jah Womble]

Ah, okay.

[Sunderporinostesta]

That whole era doesn’t reflect well on Costello.
I always thought his second album was a punked up turbo version of Dylans mid 60s Blonde On Blonde type sound. It was the best sound he ever had.

[Gangster Octopus]

I blame Paul Hogan, Barry Humphries and possibly Neighbours.

Rubbish, it's all the fault of Clive James...

[G-Man]

Conversely, as discussed on the recent Chart Music, Chicory Tip's "Son of My Father" was a copycat cover of the Giorgio Moroder original, and they went into some detail about how at the time you couldn't release a cover unless the original had been played on UK radio, so they got a sympathetic presenter on local radio in Kent to play it once, so that they could release their cover.

I didn't know that. "Son Of My Father" featured in a documentary series on hits from the 1970s. Chickory Tip were credited with coming up with the moog riff and that shimmering sound effect (it might even have been a Chickory Tip member claiming to have originated it). As you say, it's a copycat cover of Giorgio's record. And that isn't quite the original either: a year earlier, it was released as "Nachts scheint die Sonne" by schlager singer Michael Holm -- who wrote it with Moroder.

[danielmak]

Oasis?

I hadn't really paid attention to this thread but the timing is perfect. My car is in the shop so I'm in a loaner that has satellite radio and my go-to during these rare opportunities is a channel called The Underground Garage. This Donovan song was played and I thought it was Liam singing.