Liverpool and the Beatles

[Bored Of Education]

I have just got back from Liverpool which is a city I love but it is always marred somewhat by the merciless flogging of the Beatles connection. It was particularly bad this time as we walked, for the first time, through the"Cavern Quarter" which is a horrendous theme park of an area (if a theme park had no rides, the worst pubs in history playing clashing music across each other and the most terrible drunk people in the world). We were trying to work out why Liverpool is particularly bad for this and we realised that we couldn't think of another city that was so defined by one particular world famous band. London is so awash with world famous musicians and bands - Queen, Rolling Stones etc - that one doesn't really define it. Similar with New York. The biggest bands from other cities - Oasis from Manchester, for example - don't really stand head and shoulders above the others. Obviously, there are hundreds of bands and artists from Liverpool but none anywhere near as big as The Beatles. I have never been to Memphis but get the impression that even that doesn't so singularly identify with Elvis as Liverpool does with the Beatles (I won't be surprised to be disabused of this notion though).

[Sporting]

I think that for a long time Liverpool turned its back on The Beatles.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Obviously, there are hundreds of bands and artists from Britain but none anywhere near as big as The Beatles. I have never been to Las Vegas but get the impression that even that doesn't so singularly identify with Elvis as Liverpool does with the Beatles (I won't be surprised to be disabused of this notion though).

There, fixed that for you. London doesn't need a museum for Queen, it's got a West End Show FFS.

[elguapo4]

U2 are by far the biggest rock band to come out of Dublin, but you'd have to search hard to find any official or unofficial recognition, probably because they're still alive. Also the Dandelion market, which was their Cavern, and Windmill Lane, which was their Abbey Road, have long since been demolished. Phil Lynott and Luke Kelly/ the Dubliners have a higher profile.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Windmill Lane studios still exists. It's an art deco jobbie beside Ringsend bus station. I think they only recorded the first couple of albums on windmill Lane, before it became a place for TV and ads. You'd get quite a few tourists, especially italians and there was a lot of graffiti. I didn't see any musicians when I lived there, but I did see Keith o'neill and keira knightly. (At different times I might add)

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Judging by the national nostalgia meltdown after rte showed that phil lynott film the other night, particularly among people born after he died, it's not really fair to compare them.

You only have to look at the video for old town to realise that he was the coolest irish person who had ever lived at a time when cool was in extremely short supply, and crucially thin lizzy had done a gig in every parish in ireland. And half the country had met him. He was like a straight, black dublin version of Joe Dolan. He was also Crumlin to the bone, and people really respected that sort of thing

On the other hand, the number of people who wish that bono would move to the mid Atlantic, where his accent would make more sense, and hopefully fucking drown, far exceeds the number of people with fond memories of U2. Maybe if he dies.

Larry mullen might get his own statue for helping to write put em under pressure though.

[Sporting]

U2 are by far the biggest rock band to come out of Dublin, but you'd have to search hard to find any official or unofficial recognition, probably because they're still alive

As well as are two Beatles,

[Jah Womble]

One reason might be that no other band has had such a seismic effect on pop music as have The Beatles.

(Cue tiresome litany of denials…)

[Lang Spoon]

Judging by the national nostalgia meltdown after rte showed that phil lynott film the other night, particularly among people born after he died, it's not really fair to compare them.

You only have to look at the video for old town to realise that he was the coolest irish person who had ever lived at a time when cool was in extremely short supply, and crucially thin lizzy had done a gig in every parish in ireland. And half the country had met him. He was like a straight, black dublin version of Joe Dolan. He was also Crumlin to the bone, and people really respected that sort of thing

On the other hand, the number of people who wish that bono would move to the mid Atlantic, where his accent would make more sense, and hopefully fucking drown, far exceeds the number of people with fond memories of U2. Maybe if he dies.

Larry mullen might get his own statue for helping to write put em under pressure though.

Isn't it pretty much an article of faith among Dubs that Larry is a salt of de eart' type who saw through the early god bothering nonsense, the Edge is a Decent Skin, Clayton is the posh one who bags the Supermodels, and Bono is a prize pseud cunt?

[Lang Spoon]

The proliferation of using "Quarter" to describe a few streets some Chamber of Commerce wants to flog as a Lifestyle Concept, it fucking reeks.

[danielmak]

I keep thinking it was a few years ago that I was in Liverpool but I'd probably guess it was a 10 years ago. I didn't really notice a lot of Beatles stuff but I ended up spending most of my time in the university district since I was there for a work conference. And then I used free time to travel to Leeds and to Bolton to see football matches. But there would seem to be a few reasons for Beatles dominance. First, along with Elvis, the Beatles are not only the biggest rock/pop act but had a massive impact on popular culture writ large. Second, there have been other bands that came out of Liverpool (Echo and the Bunnymen are top 5 of any band from anywhere for me personally) but nothing to really make a dent in the cultural imagination that would merit massive city cultural funding. Again, Elvis would be similar in the US, but the Las Vegas note above isn't applicable--Memphis would be the spot. And Memphis, like Liverpool, has other artists that music fans would know (including Sun Studios) but the average person probably can't name another Sun artist. So, Memphis has nothing else except the MLK assassination, which is a whole different context.

London, New York, Los Angeles, Berlin, Paris and so many other large cities, have too many artists to push like Liverpool would push the Beatles. Had the Who, Stones, and Zeppelin also been from Liverpool then maybe the Beatles would be less monolithic in that city. To go back to Elvis above, his late career was associated with Vegas but so was Sinatra, Britney Spears, Elton John, and a host of others have done long runs there.

Personally, I had a lot more fun seeing Japandroids in a club owned by members of the band Ladytron than I did seeing Beatles stuff, but I don't think the city of Liverpool is expecting tourists to know Ladytron.

[ursus arctos]

Sections of Asbury Park have become a Springsteen theme park of sorts

[Bored Of Education]

There, fixed that for you. London doesn't need a museum for Queen, it's got a West End Show FFS.

It finished ages ago, didn’t it? Also, Las Vegas’ reputation was based around Sinatra and the Rat Pack ( who weren’t from there) rather than the other artists who weren’t from there who have played there

[ursus arctos]

That was Goodfellas Vegas.

Elvis was good ol' boy (and girl) Vegas.

The two co-existed for some time, but didn't really mix much. And the latter strain in utterly dominant now.

[Bored Of Education]

U2 are by far the biggest rock band to come out of Dublin, but you'd have to search hard to find any official or unofficial recognition, probably because they're still alive. Also the Dandelion market, which was their Cavern, and Windmill Lane, which was their Abbey Road, have long since been demolished. Phil Lynott and Luke Kelly/ the Dubliners have a higher profile.

Yes, I was thinking of Dublin and came to the same conclusion as you that, actually, Lynott seems more celebrated. As an aside, the first time I went to Dublin, I got too pissed to find the statue (I feel Phil would’ve approved) and the second time the statue was being cleaned

[Bored Of Education]

That was Goodfellas Vegas.

Elvis was good ol' boy (and girl) Vegas.

The two co-existed for some time, but didn't really mix much. And the latter strain in utterly dominant now.

Having never been there, I will take your word for it that they are milking the Elvis connection

[Lang Spoon]

It's a bloody awful thing outside an awful pub tbh.

[ursus arctos]

https://www.bestofvegas.com/articles...-in-las-vegas/

There's a lot more

[caja-dglh]

Minneapolis and suburbs has got to be working on becoming a Prince Theme Park, at least for the couple of months a year that it is habitable.

[ursus arctos]

I don't think the Michelle Bachmann side of town is down with that

[Gangster Octopus]

U2 are by far the biggest rock band to come out of Dublin, but you'd have to search hard to find any official or unofficial recognition

That's because no tourist goes to Dublin because of U2, whereas tourists actually go to Liverpool because of The Beatles.

[Lang Spoon]

As per Berba above, fer sure there are tonnes of Italians digging out their puffa jackets right now to do their Dublin pilgrimage to bloated AOR and wee guys in heels with Big Ideas.

[San Bernardhinault]

I have to say that while Elvis-trash is around and about in Vegas, it doesn't feel dominant anywhere. You'll maybe see a couple of Elvis impersonators at free shows in the casinos, and there's a couple of things like the wedding chapel. But really, you wouldn't know. Vegas reinvents itself every few years. It doesn't remember anything. It's telling, I think, that the sites in Ursus's link are mostly off strip and away from the higher-end modern Vegas.

I've never been to Detroit but I wonder if it has Motowny thing going on?

Nashville's Broadway and apparently Memphis's Beale Street are both sort of Music Theme Parks, but not to particular artists but rather genres. And the new Grand Ole Opry and the Gaylord Opryland Resort is actually a country music theme park.

And that makes me realise that the real answer is Dolly Parton and Pigeon Forge/Gatlinburg. With an actual real, genuine theme park with roller coasters and everything.

[ursus arctos]

Vegas has become too big to be dominated by anything other than Vegasness.

I've never been to Detroit but I wonder if it has Motowny thing going on?

Not really, at least when I was there a lot (80s through 2001).

If you are going to have Dollywood, then we've got to consider Branson as well (*shivers*).

[Amor de Cosmos]

UK visitors traipsed to Liverpool long before the city began to pump it up. I knew a bunch of Colombian girls back in 65-66 and most of them made the pilgrimage to the Cavern. I got the impression barely anyone outside Britain had ever heard of Liverpool, never mind heard the accent. John Peel got his first job as a DJ while living in Texas, simply on the basis that he sounded like one of The Beatles.

The Beatles also broke working class stereotypes. They were genuinely witty, media savvy, and clearly not from London. As a result Liverpool gained from the reflected recognition.