The future of the electric guitar in popular music

[Stumpy Pepys]

This one's a conundrum. And I don't want to come across as a reactionary old git. Even though I play myself and enjoy guitar bands, everything runs its course.

If you listen to contemporary music, you'll be hard-pushed to hear one, as everything's electronic or sampled. Although, to compound this discussion, there's no shortage of earnest young folk playing acoustic guitars. And, on top of that, sales of all guitars have certainly increased during the pandemic, although I expect this applies to many other musical instruments.

If you go see Beyonc? or Taylor Swift live, there'll be a guitarist on stage. But the player will just be another instrument in the mix.

I think there's a good argument that the guitar hero is dead. But are guitars going to come back, or will they just turn into niche instruments, maybe only played by certain genres and tribute bands? Or will they continue, but be played through multiple effects units?

[Guy Profumo]

If that's true, Leo Fender will be turning somersaults in his grave…

[johnr]

Just about anything that can be done on, or expressed via, a guitar has already happened. There's nowhere for it to go. The keyboard still has some mileage though.

[Bruno]

Yeah, it's sort of like asking what happened to the violin concerto. Not that there's anything to prevent bringing back virtuosic guitar solos, given that popular music appears content to mulch over the same ideas indefinitely. I was listening to a song by The Weeknd the other day with like half a billion views that was completely indistinguishable from an 80s pop hit.

[Gerontophile]

Yeah, it's sort of like asking what happened to the violin concerto. Not that there's anything to prevent bringing back virtuosic guitar solos, given that popular music appears content to mulch over the same ideas indefinitely. I was listening to a song by The Weeknd the other day with like half a billion views that was completely indistinguishable from an 80s pop hit.

Hey Bruno. Hope you are well. (This is not aimed at you.)

Don't blame The Weeknd. He is not the issue. How many guitars in "West End Girls"?

[Gerontophile]

Don't hope for another Prince. You have to hope for a Billie Eilish, who remembers where she and her brother wrote those fucking things.

"3 chords and the truth"

Yeah, we'll see. I trust people to use what is required to make fantastic music. And, that's life. Wait: how many guitars in "That's Life"?

[Bruno]

Don't blame The Weeknd. He is not the issue. How many guitars in "West End Girls"?

The issue I had in mind was pop music being largely in recycling mode, and by pop I mean widely popular as opposed to whoever is doing original stuff that we'd categorize as pop. I wouldn't "blame" anyone for being successful yet unoriginal, but I can't help noticing.

[Satchmo Distel]

I think it will still have value as a live instrument* but not in a recording studio, except in a retro project.

*On the premise that metal, indie, etc, can really only make big profits in the future as touring music forms rather than through recordings.

[elguapo4]

Guitars were on their way out during the synthpop era of the early 80s, and didn't one of the labels that turned down the Beatles say that guitar groups are finished ?

As long as the guitar is the cheapest and relatively easiest instrument, it will have a major place in popular music.

[Gerontophile]

The issue I had in mind was pop music being largely in recycling mode, and by pop I mean widely popular as opposed to whoever is doing original stuff that we'd categorize as pop. I wouldn't "blame" anyone for being successful yet unoriginal, but I can't help noticing.

I sort of agree. I think Motorhead is the pinnacle of lots of stuff, in one small, deft package. But that was 40 years ago. We learn and we grow, whilst hankering after the memories. Music is not about us. It's about you, and them, and those. If we like it, they're not doing it right. And if they ain't playing guitars, good on them. They can add them in later.

[Gerontophile]

Guitars were on their way out during the synthpop era of the early 80s, and didn't one of the labels that turned down the Beatles say that guitar groups are finished ?

As long as the guitar is the cheapest and relatively easiest instrument, it will have a major place in popular music.

Yes: but I would suggest, only as a writing mechanism.

[Bruno]

The cheapest and easiest rock instrument is the cowbell.

[Bruno]

I sort of agree. I think Motorhead is the pinnacle of lots of stuff, in one small, deft package. But that was 40 years ago. We learn and we grow, whilst hankering after the memories. Music is not about us. It's about you, and them, and those. If we like it, they're not doing it right. And if they ain't playing guitars, good on them. They can add them in later.

I think Mr. Kilmister whom I adore would agree.

[Gerontophile]

I can't remember what my argument was about, but thank you for saying that B.

[Hot Pepsi]

I find guitar incredibly difficult. More painful than piano. More portable though.

[Jah Womble]

I never like these bold statements that ‘anything that can be done, has been done’ - it assumes an awful lot of wisdom that cannot possibly be held. (US patent commissioner Charles Duell of course made such a sweeping statement about inventions in general over 120 years ago. Yeah, right-o...)

There are countless guitar bands/musicians about: admittedly the vast majority are very heavily influenced by (or even rehashing) what has gone before, but it only takes one individual to invent a new component or effects facility to change the game again.

I can’t see it happening for the foreseeable, it must be said. But, even in these times, to say that it cannot occur seems a bit facile.

[Gert from the Well]

Even within the world of extreme metal there are bands who are dispensing with lead / rhythm guitars such as OM and Botanist. Also the Shocking Pink Truth lp 'Why do Heathens Rage?' is a collection of electronic covers of black metal songs.

[johnr]

Sorry for being facile (I'm in a band with the most fantastic guitarist I've ever played with) - I was sort of paraphrasing/eliding from what Mark Fisher wrote about music/hauntology, and how music has been driven forward by technological invention, and that what sounded like the future 20 years ago still sounds like the future now. (Although, as keyboards were at the forefront of that leap, maybe my point doesn't stand up as well as it did in my head at the time...)

[Gert from the Well]

IIRC correctly Mark Fisher was talking about a future denied, with guitar based music there seems to be an endless loop of nostalgia that drowns out innovation,

[Stumpy Pepys]

As long as the guitar is the cheapest and relatively easiest instrument, it will have a major place in popular music.

Well, it's not. The cheapest and easiest way to make music is to plug a Midi controller into an iPhone.

[elguapo4]

An iPhone costs between 700 and 900 euros.

[Bruno]

I don't get basing a discussion like this on the types of instruments used rather than musical content. Mozart and Boulez both composed music for violins etc. The effect of recent "technological invention" has largely been to make it easier to produce music that sounds produced. You can add as many layers as you want and manicure everything down to the nanobeat, but if the musical ideas aren't fresh you're still stuck in neutral.

I see the real obstacle to innovation being more industry-structural. If popular music (writ large) follows the same natural progression as "art" or "classical" music from previous centuries in pursuit of originality, it will presumably have to be an evolution toward greater complexity and historically conscious sophistication (for lack of a better term), maybe interrupted periodically by rebounds toward greater simplicity, reconceived (maybe akin, say, to the neoclassical movement of the 1920s and 30s and minimalist movement of the 1960s). From a musical nuts-and-bolts standpoint, the language of popular music (writ large) is generally fairly simple, which does limit originality.

For greater complexity and sophistication -- and throw in eclecticism, which is where I see the most potential -- to be popular and produce big stars with the same cultural imprint as the Beatles or Prince (whom no one today, I gather, seriously rivals in any of those metrics, decades after their careers peaked) whilst still being, you know, great, you need an industry model that encourages experimentation, and today's model only appears to do so. There's a lower barrier to producing music, but the industry is dominated by streaming platforms that advantage distribution over production, with the incentive therefore to sound like a finished and saleable product on your first go-round, which you're more likely to achieve by playing it safe musically. There's ample room for experimenting and self-promoting given the low technological barrier to entry and the internet, but it's especially hard to make a prominent long-term career out of that in today's age of niche markets, where the pay scale of streaming services is proportional to how popular you are. (There must be more people than ever today whose favorite band/artist is unknown to the majority.) A streaming platform wants to find other songs like the one you liked, not cultivate your interest in a particular artist/group, whose most popular songs will be lumped in generically with a lot of other stuff. (Platforms like Bandcamp seek to counteract this.)

[Stumpy Pepys]

An iPhone costs between 700 and 900 euros.

But teenagers have smartphones already.

[Stumpy Pepys]

I never like these bold statements that ‘anything that can be done, has been done’ - it assumes an awful lot of wisdom that cannot possibly be held. (US patent commissioner Charles Duell of course made such a sweeping statement about inventions in general over 120 years ago. Yeah, right-o...)

I think it's safe to say that guitar heroes aren't coming back. I'm not sure if any new guitar bands will either. That's not to say the guitar will disappear.

[caja-dglh]

Solos are out in popular music in all their forms - saxophone, guitar, keyboard. I am not sure any of this is a bad thing. Guitar and other instrument specific idols still exist. There was a whole media cycle recently when Yo-Yo Ma played after he got his second COVID shot at a mass vaccination center. Just because it isn't in everyone's face doesn't mean it is gone.