John Lennon at 80

[steveeeeeeeee]

As Nocturnal Sub mentioned, the Lennon docs on TV have been enjoyable. The Sky Arts one, which was very defensive about Yoko, made a very good case that the lyrics to Imagine come from Yoko's book "Grapefruit", Lennon offered her credit for the lyrics but she turned it down.

This bit from Grapefruit was referenced a lot,

Imagine the clouds dripping.
Dig a hole in your garden to
put them in.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Yes. Perhaps he'd have moved to Brooklyn. My understanding is that there are now enough famous people there that they can stay relatively unbothered. But then, he might decide that had become too bourgeois and moved to Portland or Sonoma or somesuch.

Or maybe even back to Liverpool...?

There's a book, Liverpool Fantasy, which speculates about what would've happened to each of the Beatles if they split up after Love Me Do was released
(because EMI insisted on 'Till There Was You be the follow up instead of Please, Please Me.) George goes into a monastery. Paul becomes a big MOR star and Vegas fixture. Meanwhile Ringo and John go back to Liverpool, where the latter becomes a quasi-Marxist pub-bore, and has to deal with Julian leading the local National Front chapter. Both he and Ringo are basically supported, financially and emotionally, by Maureen who's the latter's long-suffering wife. It's quite fun in a silly sort of way, written by Larry Kirwan, once a member of Black 47.

[MsD]

As Nocturnal Sub mentioned, the Lennon docs on TV have been enjoyable. The Sky Arts one, which was very defensive about Yoko, made a very good case that the lyrics to Imagine come from Yoko's book "Grapefruit", Lennon offered her credit for the lyrics but she turned it down.

This bit from Grapefruit was referenced a lot,

Yep. I'm also defensive about Yoko, who is still getting misogynist, racist shit to this day. In Lennon Remembers, he gives her credit, saying that at the time he just took it for granted, it was just the missus. I wouldn't want to listen to a Yoko solo boxset any more than most people but she is an artist, not just a muse.

[Satchmo Distel]

Yoko influenced some female punks (e.g. Linder Sterling).

Lydon has always struck me as someone who could swing right as well as left. He seemed to favour the individual over the collective, so all he'd need in order to be drawn to Trump would be to identify with Trump's public image of burning everything down and draining the swamp. Where he's deluded, of course, is in not seeing how Trump had all the elitist advantages that Lydon is supposed to detest. I don't think Lennon would be that gullible given that he'd already seen through Nixon.

[Hot Pepsi]

As Nocturnal Sub mentioned, the Lennon docs on TV have been enjoyable. The Sky Arts one, which was very defensive about Yoko, made a very good case that the lyrics to Imagine come from Yoko's book "Grapefruit", Lennon offered her credit for the lyrics but she turned it down.

This bit from Grapefruit was referenced a lot,

Um, that's a pond, isn't it?

[Hot Pepsi]

Or maybe even back to Liverpool...?

There's a book, Liverpool Fantasy, which speculates about what would've happened to each of the Beatles if they split up after Love Me Do was released
(because EMI insisted on 'Till There Was You be the follow up instead of Please, Please Me.) George goes into a monastery. Paul becomes a big MOR star and Vegas fixture. Meanwhile Ringo and John go back to Liverpool, where the latter becomes a quasi-Marxist pub-bore, and has to deal with Julian leading the local National Front chapter. Both he and Ringo are basically supported, financially and emotionally, by Maureen who's the latter's long-suffering wife. It's quite fun in a silly sort of way, written by Larry Kirwan, once a member of Black 47.

That would be a sad outcome.

It seemed like certain elements in the US government wanted him out of the US, so maybe he'd have gone back.

But I've been told Liverpool was a sad place in the 70s.

[jwdd27]

But I've been told Liverpool was a sad place in the 70s.

There's an obvious joke there.... and here it is: "not just in in the 70s, har har".

I think The Beatles would have been persuaded/shamed into doing something around the time of Live Aid.

I'm not a Lennon fan at all, and I would envisage him becoming a bit of a contrarian embarrassment along the lines of Morrissey and Lydon.

Not sure what he would have done musically past 40, George (IMO) was the only one to do anything interesting after John's death, but even that was sporadic.

[Patrick Thistle]

Not sure what he would have done musically past 40,

A change of career might beckon a la Ringo. I could see him becoming a celeb children's author. Or even a TV host, maybe - not just of muso docs, but of a late night panel show.

[Aitch]

There's also a BBC radio play about what the Beatles would have done if EMI had rejected them and they disbanded. Paul becomes a geography teacher, George spends all his time on his allotment, Ringo wins the football pools and disappears from view and John becomes a cartoonist for That Was the Week That Was and enjoys some minor celebrity. John and Paul finally reunite after being prodded by the former secretary of the Beatles' fan club and they collaborate on a musical Paul is writing for his school. Entertaining in a kind of BBC Radio 4 way.

[Jah Womble]

There's an obvious joke there.... and here it is: "not just in in the 70s, har har".

I think The Beatles would have been persuaded/shamed into doing something around the time of Live Aid.

I'm not a Lennon fan at all, and I would envisage him becoming a bit of a contrarian embarrassment along the lines of Morrissey and Lydon.

Not sure what he would have done musically past 40, George (IMO) was the only one to do anything interesting after John's death, but even that was sporadic.

I doubt Lennon would've gone down the same rabbit-hole as Morrissey or Lydon. He was seemingly better-informed than either - and his 'mercurial' character had already been leavened considerably by having fathered children. (Whether he'd have had any more kids, who knows? But he was already a changed person by the time of his death. 'Thankfully.')

I could see him having eventually eschewed music and perhaps concentrated on prose. (If Double Fantasy was owt to go by, then that wouldn't have been so bad.)

[steveeeeeeeee]

Yep. I'm also defensive about Yoko, who is still getting misogynist, racist shit to this day. In Lennon Remembers, he gives her credit, saying that at the time he just took it for granted, it was just the missus. I wouldn't want to listen to a Yoko solo boxset any more than most people but she is an artist, not just a muse.

I really like "Approximately Infinite Universe". Her first 4 albums are really good to explore when you when you've got a day/afternoon free and want to listen to something different (did so recently);

I can't see why Lennon would have left Yoko if he'd lived, as someone suggested up thread. Yoko comes across as an incredibly strong woman, kicking Lennon out after he publicly humiliated her, and also wise and self-secure, giving Lennon space to figure himself out whilst also persuading May Pang to tag along on the forgotten weekend. Yoko knew few women had anything on her in terms of appealing to Lennon's intellectual curiosity and believed he would return to her a better person than when he left. For Lennon's part, he had been married from a young age, he'd never had the freedom of being a young man partying all hours and needed to get it out of his system. I really believe Lennon would have stayed with Yoko and would have continued to embrace both popular and avant garde music, but kept them both as separate entites.

[Hot Pepsi]

I suspect they might have broken up because they had, temporarily, before and because famous-people marriages seem to break up at an above average rate for people in that income bracket. I don’t have solid statistics to prove that, because I can’t find any rigorous attempt to measure it, but my guess is the divorce rate is more than 50%.

[G-Man]

They'd have stayed together. Yoko was not just a wife and lover, but also his mother-figure -- and if his expressed pain about being first abandoned by Julia and then her death is an indication, then he needed Yoko in that latter role the most.

[kokamoa]

I really like "Approximately Infinite Universe". Her first 4 albums are really good to explore when you when you've got a day/afternoon free and want to listen to something different (did so recently);

I can't see why Lennon would have left Yoko if he'd lived, as someone suggested up thread. Yoko comes across as an incredibly strong woman, kicking Lennon out after he publicly humiliated her, and also wise and self-secure, giving Lennon space to figure himself out whilst also persuading May Pang to tag along on the forgotten weekend. Yoko knew few women had anything on her in terms of appealing to Lennon's intellectual curiosity and believed he would return to her a better person than when he left. For Lennon's part, he had been married from a young age, he'd never had the freedom of being a young man partying all hours and needed to get it out of his system. I really believe Lennon would have stayed with Yoko and would have continued to embrace both popular and avant garde music, but kept them both as separate entites.

Yes, I make you right on this, especially about the music. John Lennon albums would have got more sporadic as the years passed, but he would definitely be collaborating with Yoko and Sean.

I think that he would have definitely turned up as a special guest during one of McCartney’s 21st Century tours as well.

[Sporting]

The Ballad of John and Yoko:

"Finally made the plane into Paris,
Honeymooning down by the Seine.
Peter Brown called to say,
You can make it OK,
You can get married in Gibraltar near Spain."

How could they have been honeymooning before actually tying the knot?

[elguapo4]

While they were waiting for Peter Brown to sort out a wedding venue , they decided that they may as well start the honeymoon.

[Jah Womble]

You can get married in Gibraltar near Spain."

Not his greatest line.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

He missed the Gibraltar / altar open goal too.

[Sporting]

Civil ceremony.

[Jah Womble]

He missed the Gibraltar / altar open goal too.

Then the honeymoon could’ve been extended to Malta?

[Satchmo Distel]

[WOM]

Not enough white floopy hats around any more.

[Gangster Octopus]

Or coats made of human hair...

[Jah Womble]

I assume that the surplus was given to Bowie for making up underwear.

[1974ddr]

You know, I've always heard it as 'Monday morning down by the Seine'. You learn something every day.