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    John Lennon at 80

    Today John Lennon would have turned 80 years old, which is a jolting reminder of the passage of time. The first generation of rock & rollers are over 80, or rapidly approaching that age. The first people to buy a Beatles record are in their mid-60s or older. The Beatlemania screaming girls we see in those pictures are pensioners now. Even the original punks are now over 60 or very close to that.

    Of course, 60 today isn't what 60 was just a couple decades ago, nor is 80 today necessarily the same as 80 was just a decade ago.

    As for Lennon, I wonder what contribution to music he might have made had he not been murdered. I imagine (ha!) that he would not have been much of an innovator, but he'd probably have had the odd hit, probably a song from a movie, in the way of Springsteen with "Philadelphia". I wonder if he would have maintained the left-wing politics...

    #2
    I don’t know.
    In Yesterday, he’s played by Jamie Bell as a guy who just retires by the sea - somehow - and is happy with life. I like that idea.

    I’m afraid it might have gone badly. I was only 8, when he died and didn’t know who he was, but the interviews, etc, that I’ve read suggest he was kinda bitter about the music business and somewhat alienated from Julian.

    I don’t think his marriage to Yoko Ono would have lasted much longer.

    I’m not sure if the Beatles would have ever played together, because I don’t know if Lennon actually enjoyed playing live. On the other hand, the staggering sums of money they could have made by reuniting may have eventually swayed him.* Or he might have been persuaded by the self-congratulatory hype around Live Aid.

    But its hard to tell. He didn’t seem to enjoy being famous, but then he didn’t do much to avoid it.

    I think he would have been distraught by the 80s. The Reaganness, the arms race and the war on drugs. Of course, he was obscenely rich, and “Imagine” is kind of offputting in light of all that, but I just don’t think he’d have been happy presenting at the MTV awards or being at all cooperative with that sort of corporate image-making, especially if he wasn’t the one crafting the images.

    I don’t think “Revolution” would have been in a Nike commercial if he’d lived.

    Perhaps he would have ended up like Bob Dylan. Insanely rich, making lots of albums - some good, some not - and continuing to tour, but hardly ever doing interviews and being kind of a mystery.

    He’d probably have moved to France. I’m told that’s the best place for people who want to be private.



    *It’s amazing to recall how short their time really was, of course, but also that the second half of it was just albums and films with no tours. I recall in the 80s some critics suggesting that some massive bands - U2 or REM - might end up like that, but now, of course, it’s the opposite. There’s not much to be made from recording but a lot to be made on touring, especially for the small number of acts that can play NFL stadiums. The Beatles could have continued to play NFL stadiums, or at least NBA arenas, for as long as they wanted to.

    Comment


      #3
      Lennon is so contradictory and puzzling you could write a whole book about him...

      Serious: he was great. And he hated the sound of his own voice, daft get.

      Comment


        #4
        This guy has thoughts.
        https://www.nme.com/news/music/john-...p-hell-2778035

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          #5
          Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
          I don’t know.
          In Yesterday, he’s played by Jamie Bell as a guy who just retires by the sea - somehow - and is happy with life. I like that idea.

          I’m afraid it might have gone badly. I was only 8, when he died and didn’t know who he was, but the interviews, etc, that I’ve read suggest he was kinda bitter about the music business and somewhat alienated from Julian.

          I don’t think his marriage to Yoko Ono would have lasted much longer.

          I’m not sure if the Beatles would have ever played together, because I don’t know if Lennon actually enjoyed playing live. On the other hand, the staggering sums of money they could have made by reuniting may have eventually swayed him.* Or he might have been persuaded by the self-congratulatory hype around Live Aid.

          But its hard to tell. He didn’t seem to enjoy being famous, but then he didn’t do much to avoid it.

          I think he would have been distraught by the 80s. The Reaganness, the arms race and the war on drugs. Of course, he was obscenely rich, and “Imagine” is kind of offputting in light of all that, but I just don’t think he’d have been happy presenting at the MTV awards or being at all cooperative with that sort of corporate image-making, especially if he wasn’t the one crafting the images.

          I don’t think “Revolution” would have been in a Nike commercial if he’d lived.

          Perhaps he would have ended up like Bob Dylan. Insanely rich, making lots of albums - some good, some not - and continuing to tour, but hardly ever doing interviews and being kind of a mystery.

          He’d probably have moved to France. I’m told that’s the best place for people who want to be private.



          *It’s amazing to recall how short their time really was, of course, but also that the second half of it was just albums and films with no tours. I recall in the 80s some critics suggesting that some massive bands - U2 or REM - might end up like that, but now, of course, it’s the opposite. There’s not much to be made from recording but a lot to be made on touring, especially for the small number of acts that can play NFL stadiums. The Beatles could have continued to play NFL stadiums, or at least NBA arenas, for as long as they wanted to.
          Good post HP.

          Comment


            #6
            Dunno, but it's my impression that he was becoming less committed to music as a form than the other three Beatles, especially Paul and George. He might have moved more into writing, or some other means of staying in the public eye. He wouldn't have been quiet that's for sure.

            Comment


              #7
              Yeah, I imagine he’d have gotten into film production in the 90s.

              Comment


                #8
                Ah, so that's why there's a load of programmes on BBC4 and Sky Arts tonight about Lennon and The Beatles.

                Comment


                  #9
                  As for Imagine, I think he's unfairly criticised for the lyrics. It's just a song. Of course the words are cringe-worthy. For example, how many people complain that Pete Townshend didn't die before he got old?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Sporting View Post
                    As for Imagine, I think he's unfairly criticised for the lyrics. It's just a song. Of course the words are cringe-worthy. For example, how many people complain that Pete Townshend didn't die before he got old?
                    I find the attacks on Imagine to be kinda funny really. In a laughing at people way.

                    Lennon does seem to have been pretty awful personally in many ways. And sounds like he grew up in really tough circumstances. It's funny to think he was younger than my parents, I'm not sure why that stands out so much for me, but it does.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      A lot of people are contradictory or awful in some ways, but their personalities aren't scrutinised or their words recorded. I don't regard Lennon as a sociopath or that problematic a personality, he clearly had compassion, empathy, self-awareness and capacity for love, and he felt guilt and shame and insecurity as well as having that cocksure energy (leadsingeritis). And talent.

                      John Lennon and the Beatles were part of my life before I could talk properly and their evolution through the 60s seemed like a long road, although now it's but a blink of an eye.

                      He would have been an interesting old person, maybe less disappointing at 80 than Lydon is at 60-odd. Would like to have heard his mature work.
                      Last edited by MsD; 10-10-2020, 18:06.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        That is spot-on, I think, MsD.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          It would be an interesting alt hist experiment. My feeling is that if the Eagles could reform for the money, the Beatles would have done the same, probably around the turn of the Millennium. There would have been a cash in record of course.

                          Otherwise he would maybe have found a cause and promoted it. Who knows he might have come back to Liverpool and gone into some kind of activism; probably not party politics.

                          He would have been a cool father figure during the Britpop explosion a bit like Tom Jones positioned himself. But I doubt he would have done an album of duets.

                          Or as HP says, he'd have moved to France and disappeared.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Big, big difference between The Beatles and The Eagles.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                              It would be an interesting alt hist experiment. My feeling is that if the Eagles could reform for the money, the Beatles would have done the same, probably around the turn of the Millennium. There would have been a cash in record of course.
                              Possibly around the time George Harrison was in financial difficulties after the demise of Handmade Films. Although the money from the Anthology documentary and albums seemed to fix that, so who knows?

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Sporting View Post
                                As for Imagine, I think he's unfairly criticised for the lyrics. It's just a song. Of course the words are cringe-worthy. For example, how many people complain that Pete Townshend didn't die before he got old?
                                To be fair, the media used to hang on that sentiment loads in the 80s, 90s, 00s.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                                  Or as HP says, he'd have moved to France and disappeared.
                                  I think he'd still be in NYC, which he loved.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    I am always a bit surprised by people's disappointment in Lydon. I suspect that might be an age thing, I dunno. I can't see why people would expect anything much in particular of him.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      An 80 year old would be doing occasional media interviews on grand themes, if a little downbeat: "I told you in 72 that the Irish Border would be a problem"

                                      Easyjet would be flying out of Tommy Smith Airport
                                      Last edited by Duncan Gardner; 12-10-2020, 10:46.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by TonTon View Post
                                        I am always a bit surprised by people's disappointment in Lydon. I suspect that might be an age thing, I dunno. I can't see why people would expect anything much in particular of him.
                                        I wouldn’t expect him to be bigging up Trump as a “free thinker”, that is a disappointment. I’ve probably said what I think of him on here before, don’t want to derail Lennon thread.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Sporting View Post

                                          I think he'd still be in NYC, which he loved.
                                          But New York isn't as interesting as it was back then.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            That is certainly arguable, assuming that one is talking about the city as a whole, and not Manhattan south of 110th Street.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                              That is certainly arguable, assuming that one is talking about the city as a whole, and not Manhattan south of 110th Street.
                                              He struck me as the kind of guy who would make that argument.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Dunno

                                                He struck me as the kind of person who would be interested in the migration of artists to Dumbo or Williamsburg, the emergence of Petit Senegal and the explosion of "Chinatowns" in the outer boroughs.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Yes. Perhaps he'd have moved to Brooklyn. My understanding is that there are now enough famous people there that they can stay relatively unbothered. But then, he might decide that had become too bourgeois and moved to Portland or Sonoma or somesuch.

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