Sorry, I’m getting to this late...

[Hot Pepsi]

I seem to usually only properly get around to listening to bands long after they’ve stopped touring. I just never had the money to buy enough music as a kid and now I’m still catching up.

I didn’t listen to Joy Division until about 2000.
I didn’t get into Fugazi until the mid 2000s. It’s not like I was just listening to schlock before that. I’d just not gotten around to it.

I still haven’t properly explored the Stones.

Like just last week, I thought, “Wow. The Cure are really good.” I mean, I’ve known that for 30 years, but somehow it just really hit me now.

And recently Spotify told me to listen to “Crash” by the Primitives. What a perfect record. And yet, I can’t recall if I’ve heard it before. How could I not? It was in the US college music charts. They had the MPDG lead singer. How’d I miss this?

I’m not sure what point I’m making.

I also only recently learned that Spandau Ballet’s “True” is about Clare Grogan of Altered Images. Was that common knowledge in the 80s?

[Vicarious Thrillseeker]

I also only recently learned that Spandau Ballet’s “True” is about Clare Grogan of Altered Images

Wait.....wut?

[Felicity, I guess so]

What he said, so in answer to your question absolutely not!

[Benjm]

I can't remember whether I knew about True and Clare Grogan before. I'm not startled so maybe I did. I hope that Don't Talk To Me About Love isn't about Gary Kemp, generally sound as he and his brother may be.

Finding music at your own pace and at the right time of life for it to resonate with you seems how it should be. There's so much out there that it isn't possible for one person to absorb everything and trying to plough through it all as a box ticking exercise misses the point of what music is supposed to do. It can be satisfying to get in on something early but often it's an accident of place and time rather than evidence that you're some super cool pioneer.

[Jah Womble]

I'll concede that I'd never heard this either. Not that I've bothered delving into Spandau lyrics much.

A line from True features in this NME Top-whatever Crap Lyrics list:

https://www.nme.com/photos/50-worst-...l-time-1434596

This was NME after it also went crap, however, so I'd not pay too much heed. ('Drink cider from a lemon', my ass - do your research.)

[Greenlander]

Crash is a brilliant three minutes. There was a whole raft of female fronted bands around that time, but that one still gets quite a bit of radio play on Absolute and I enjoy it every time I hear it.

[ad hoc]

I saw the primitives a few times before Crash launched them, very briefly, into the big time. They were a Cov band - see also King, from around the same time - which happened to be the time when i was a student at Warwick Uni. Sadly too late to catch the Specials and the Selecter.

[Greenlander]

I reckon there's a couple of different factors at play there HP.

When I was young I'd hear stuff by, for example, the Beatles but I wouldn't hear The Beatles. There was a small section of songs that would get played on a sort of endless rotation and there was a background noise of just how good was Sgt. Pepper but I wasn't able to get fully immersed. My parents had a decent collection of classical music plus calypso, steel band stuff from Bermuda (my mum's birthplace) and not much else. Unsurprisingly 'Yesterday' featured heavily on the upturned Esso cans. So I'd hear this stuff but not enough to understand why it was so influential and then, of course, when I became a record buyer other stuff was fighting for my meagre paper round wages and birthday money. Not just stuff like 2-Tone and Madness then afterwards stuff by New Order and the Cure but football and away days. There just wasn't room to explore the Beatles, plus they were old and, admittedly not mine, your parents music. Being young meant being about the now.

For me, musicians and actual people in bands served that purpose. Martin Carr of the Boo Radleys filtered the Beatles into the Giant Steps album, and plenty gave lessons into the Velvet Underground and the Stones. They had the time, if not the money, to listen to all these influences and bring them into a more modern context.

Which kind of also explains why you knew you liked the Cure but didn't really know them. I'm sure I wasn't alone in having a list of must buy albums compiled from NME reviews, late night radio One and maybe seeing a band you didn't know as a support act and really liked. Mine always had around a minimum of five and often as quickly as you'd get one, not even necessarily the real must-have, another would enter or you'd buy something that wasn't even on the list. So the must have at the top would remain, remember that trying to buy indie albums, especially those that weren't particularly current was often not easy in a provincial British town even one with a decent enough indie record shop and some that I now know are absolute belters remained low in the list, eventually destined to be jettisoned when it got too unwieldy.

My Bloody Valentine's Loveless remains my benchmark here, it sat on my list for an age in the early 90s before I eventually got it around ten years after the event. It's a record I absolutely adore, I couldn't tell you what I bought in that period, probably the Family Cat album which I still love. They were my favourite band of the time so that purchase was a no-brainer and maybe a Carter USM album came out around then too and they were always a must see gig. The Wedding Present were embarking on their single a month project so that would have been another distraction but there would also have been a box load of other stuff long since forgotten that took immediate precedence and not half as influential, long lasting and, dare I say, important as Loveless. I knew it was vital, but I just didn't realise it at the time.

But now I can listen to just about anything and at anytime. If I really want to buy it I can. And, to my eternal shame, I still haven't really explored the Beatles.

[Stumpy Pepys]

And, to my eternal shame, I still haven't really explored the Beatles.

When I was growing up (1980s), it was quite fashionable to dismiss the Beatles as overrated--as a result, although I'd heard lots of their singles, I'd never really explored them as an albums band. It probably wasn't until the mid-90s that I bought a copy of Revolver and I later ended up buying the mono box set (plus a copy of Let it Be). Since then, I listen to them all the time.

[Sits]

When I was growing up (1980s), it was quite fashionable to dismiss the Beatles as overrated--as a result, although I'd heard lots of their singles, I'd never really explored them as an albums band. It probably wasn't until the mid-90s that I bought a copy of Revolver and I later ended up buying the mono box set (plus a copy of Let it Be). Since then, I listen to them all the time.

A not dissimilar experience here. Although I got the Red and Blue Best Ofs before Revolver. I got into Bob Dylan to an extent in the late 80s, then a mate lent me Blood On The Tracks around 1990 and all bets were off.

[Jah Womble]

The Beatles split up just before I got to grips with pop music, but it certainly didn't stop me from exploring the back catalogue. From recollection, school teachers were heavily into them (as one might expect) and I can certainly recall looking at the lyrics in some depth during English classes in the mid-seventies. For example, on one occasion our teacher implored us as to why we thought Lennon and McCartney had written Rocky Raccoon - and I can remember feeling very short-changed (paradoxically) when the answer he required was 'to make money'. So much for imagery and message. (He always gave me straight As, so I didn't quibble too much.)

They had the MPDG lead singer. How’d I miss this?

Perhaps I'm being stupid (or tempting fate by asking), but what's an 'MPDG lead singer'?

[Hot Pepsi]

Wait.....wut?

[ursus arctos]

Jah, Manic Pixie Dream Girl

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manic_Pixie_Dream_Girl

[ad hoc]

I read that description and thought I understood, and then read the list of MPDGs and realised that, no I don't. If Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman is an MPDG, then I clearly do not understand the concept at all

[ursus arctos]

I would agree with that. She really isn't.

And I find most of the "historical" examples to be painful stretches

[Nocturnal Submission]

('Drink cider from a lemon', my ass - do your research.)

Sorry, can you elucidate? I know that it's a line from Buck Rogers.

[Hot Pepsi]

The Beatles split up just before I got to grips with pop music, but it certainly didn't stop me from exploring the back catalogue. From recollection, school teachers were heavily into them (as one might expect) and I can certainly recall looking at the lyrics in some depth during English classes in the mid-seventies. For example, on one occasion our teacher implored us as to why we thought Lennon and McCartney had written Rocky Raccoon - and I can remember feeling very short-changed (paradoxically) when the answer he required was 'to make money'. So much for imagery and message. (He always gave me straight As, so I didn't quibble too much.)


Perhaps I'm being stupid (or tempting fate by asking), but what's an 'MPDG lead singer'?

I don’t know if she really fits that description, but with music videos in the 80s, it was easy to project whatever one wanted onto the singer.

[Stumpy Pepys]

Steely Dan was a band I never got until relatively recently. I knew they had adoring fans and were technically great, but I just thought they were a bit too clever by half. Nowadays, I don't think there's anything wrong with being clever and I quite enjoy them now.

Also my dad's a real jazz-head and Steely Dan is one of the few bands we have in common. So much so, that we went to see Nearly Dan play in Wigan a few years ago. Which I enjoyed.

[Ray de Galles]

I got in to Steely Dan about about 15 years ago. I got stuck in LA on a work trip for about a week longer than planned so went over to the lovely Tower Records on the Strip and bought an armful of CDs that I thought would provide a suitable soundtrack. Perhaps it was the context that helped but I love them now.

[Ray de Galles]

Sorry, can you elucidate? I know that it's a line from Buck Rogers.

I always thought the line was "Drink cider from eleven", i.e. starting in the morning and all day.

[Nocturnal Submission]

I always thought the line was "Drink cider from eleven", i.e. starting in the morning and all day.

Well, I thought that it was actually "from a lemon" but that it was just a nonsense line written for shits and giggles and wholly deserving of a place in the list, so I'm interested in Jah's take. I even asked a Devonian friend what the lyric was all about at the time.

[Ray de Galles]

No, you're right about "lemon" being the correct word and the lyrics being largely nonsense though with some background behind it. I just didn't realise that was the case before reading this thread.

I haven't yet read the article linked to upthread that mentions it though, I presume you mean "undeserving"?

[Jah Womble]

It's 'drink cider from eleven', surely? An 'all-dayer', as RdG describes - and also to rhyme with 'Devon'. (I know Feeder aren't exactly renowned for their lyrical prowess, but 'drink cider from a lemon' has to be complete and utter cobblers.)

I don't know if she really fits that description, but with music videos in the 80s, it was easy to project whatever one wanted onto the singer.

I'd like to agree - or disagree - but have no idea what 'MPDG' stands for, so I'll ask again...

[WOM]

I'd like to agree - or disagree - but have no idea what 'MPDG' stands for, so I'll ask again...

ursus posted a whole thing.... (13:11)

[Gangster Octopus]

Ursus has already told you.