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Top ten twats in rock and pop.

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    To add to Pete Doherty being mentioned upthread, there's this really quite shady tale:

    Forensic reports suggested that Blanco did not fall from the balcony and that he was carried and dropped.
    Doherty was seen to be fleeing the scene at a time that matches Blanco's estimated time of death.
    'Twat' could be seen as just a teensy bit understated here...
    As the singer makes another comeback with the Libertines, BBC reporter Peter Marshall investigates the case of Mark Blanco and the new digital evidence that could finally resolve an eight-year mystery

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      Originally posted by 3 Colours Red View Post
      More women, you say? By all accounts, Jennifer Lopez is an absolute nightmare to work with. Makes all other "divas" look like rank amateurs.
      Lopez is another to play at birthday parties for dictators of the Stans. Cannot remember which one hit she earned a million dollars for it.

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        I like Bjork, have mutuals with her and have seen her out and about behaving like a regular gal. She's hugely talented so could be horrible and get away with it, but the "tantrums" seem like moments of stress with cunty photographers and journos. I don't blame anyone for reacting badly in those circumstances so never take "is horrible to journalist" or even "punched a photographer" as evidence of being a twat on its own - apart from the odd case where they've bullied their way through an interview, usually with a young female.

        I don't like Louise Wener's politics, so blocked her on Twitter. I liked a couple of Sleeper songs, so very slightly disappointed (only slightly).

        Re. Doherty - yes, that is well shady, and the reason I don't like him.

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          That Doherty piece was published six years ago, though - have there been any developments since, do we know?

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            Although I adored him. Mark E Smith was capable of being a right prat, and then some.

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              I haven't followed this thread and assume someone's already mentioned Bill Wyman? If not he gets listed for "keeping score" on the innumerable teenage girls he gave about ten minutes apiece to. Keef has less to say about him than any other member of the Stones including Mick Taylor. Other than, "he was only in the band because we needed a bass player and he had an amplifier... mostly because of the amplifier."

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                When Billy was shacked up with Mandy Smith, his son was dating her mother. So any child of either relationship would have been their own grandparent. Or something

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                  Originally posted by Jah Womble View Post
                  That Doherty piece was published six years ago, though - have there been any developments since, do we know?
                  The Blanco family are still pressing for news, and now again you see that someone has talked, but it really is going to be hard to get the whole truth, the longer it goes on. Then it's going to be hearsay, I would've thought. Personally, I don't like him for seemingly not caring that someone died at his flat, at the very least.

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                    Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View Post
                    When Billy was shacked up with Mandy Smith, his son was dating her mother. So any child of either relationship would have been their own grandparent. Or something
                    I can't work that out, I need paper.

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                      Paper won't help

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                        If Wyman's son had a child with Smiths Mother, then Mandy Smith would be both it's half Sister and Step Grandmother.

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                          Originally posted by Sporting View Post
                          Although I adored him. Mark E Smith was capable of being a right prat, and then some.
                          But wasn't that it?

                          Awkward, difficult, and twattish?

                          This thread is about (despite the thread title) the near evil?

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                            Originally posted by MsD View Post
                            The Blanco family are still pressing for news, and now again you see that someone has talked, but it really is going to be hard to get the whole truth, the longer it goes on. Then it's going to be hearsay, I would've thought. Personally, I don't like him for seemingly not caring that someone died at his flat, at the very least.
                            Thanks. I think it was a flat belonging to a guy called Paul Roundhill, however, at which Doherty was a frequent guest: this included the night of Mark Blanco's death. (Roundhill's home was also the venue for musician Paul Cunniffe's death five years previously - and also from 'accidental' falling.)

                            Doherty and his girlfriend certainly disappeared from the property very quickly after the incident - and apparently went off and crashed a party at a hotel. Whether he was directly involved or otherwise, that to me seems callous beyond words.

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                              Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                              It depends on the consequences. Sportspeople might get bans. Western musicians OTOH are doing it purely for financial greed and have total freedom to refuse with no risk of career penalties.
                              I'm not sure of this, I would presume some record companies, particularly the Americans, put a fair bit of pressure on their acts to play in Israel. "It would be good for your career..."

                              And playing Israel is sadly so widespread that it doesn't warrant inclusion on the list. Google your favourite act and you'll most likely find they've been there, more than once usually. And the likes of Elvis Costello and The Pixies made the headlines for cancelling booked concerts rather than flat out refusing to consider it.

                              Even your* beloved Fall played Israel three times.
                              * your = OTF in general, not Satchmo.

                              Anyway, I nominate Johnny Ramone - woman beater and out and out racist (including anti-semitic abuse of his fellow Ramones) and that's outside of the general acting the twat that was de rigeur as part of that band.

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                                Originally posted by Jah Womble View Post
                                Thanks. I think it was a flat belonging to a guy called Paul Roundhill, however, at which Doherty was a frequent guest: this included the night of Mark Blanco's death. (Roundhill's home was also the venue for musician Paul Cunniffe's death five years previously - and also from 'accidental' falling.)

                                Doherty and his girlfriend certainly disappeared from the property very quickly after the incident - and apparently went off and crashed a party at a hotel. Whether he was directly involved or otherwise, that to me seems callous beyond words.
                                https://www.justiceformark.com/jerry/ for Jerry Sadowitz's comments.

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                                  I used to work with a woman who one day asked me if I liked Sleeper. "Fuck, no" I said, then trailed off as I realised my colleague and the Sleeper woman had the same surname. Cousins, it turned out. Happily my colleague was amused more than anything, nice woman she was.

                                  For twats I'm nominating Public Enemy, a group I mostly adore. The reason for this is that not only did they record and release simultaneously their most twattish and musically insignificant song - 'Meet The G That Killed Me' - but they put it in the middle of one of the best albums of its era. Unbridled twattery. Their labelmates the Beastie Boys were obnoxious twats too, though they did apologise for it in later years IIRC.

                                  Radiohead get extra twat points for using the word 'retarded' to describe critics of their decision to play in Israel, if I'm not mistaken. Also for being really shit. Britpop groups were terrible, weren't they?

                                  I was at uni with a chap who went on to be in the Libertines' 'gang'. He formed a group called Selfish Cunt. I'm fairly sure he was a twat at that point in his life, but he was also a very creative guy and I liked him.

                                  Captain Beefheart deserves mention for being even more aggro and tyrannical than MES. At least the latter let his musicians go to the pub after he'd finished shouting at them. Beefy kept his group in a shack and abusively bullied them in a cult-like fashion. This horrible situation gave the world 'Troutmask Replica' and master drummer John French at least thinks it was all worth it.

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                                    Oh, I saw Selfish Cunt play twice! Once at the Hackney Empire, supporting Billy Childish, and once at some other ... thing.

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                                      Originally posted by delicatemoth View Post
                                      Captain Beefheart deserves mention for being even more aggro and tyrannical than MES. At least the latter let his musicians go to the pub after he'd finished shouting at them. Beefy kept his group in a shack and abusively bullied them in a cult-like fashion.
                                      Morrissey made one of his musicians blow out his own 50th birthday party.

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                                        A quick scan of the thread sees no mention of Ginger Baker. Pretty well everyone who met Ginger Baker seriously disliked Ginger Baker. Apart from possibly, maybe, Eric Clapton. Quite a few of the others mentioned here would divide opinion in a general survey as opposed to the rather narrow political view that we have on OTF (i.e. those who have played Israel/vote Tory/etc.). But the world was moreorless united in considering Baker an utter twat who happened to be very talented. Without him actually being a serious criminal, or anything like that.

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                                          [@MsD] Ha, were they any good? I only found this out years later when I bumped into him at the council offices. He was the singer, very performative fellow. I performed my one-person show at a gallery event him and (I think mostly) his then-girlfriend put on. Bit weird to think that if I'd been more outgoing and less massively depressed I'd quite possibly have become part of that Hoxton 'scene'.

                                          Yeah, people focus on Morrissey's politics but there's plenty of evidence that he's a complete arsehole for other reasons too.

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                                            Have we mentioned Billy Corrigan? Trumpist dickhead. He was always a dickhead, but Smashing Pumpkins made some great early 90s music and videos.

                                            What did Sting do to the rainforest? IIRC, he made a lot of self-congratulatory pronouncements about it while flying in a private jet, etc, but that’s pretty low level twatery by celebrity standards. His impact on the situation was probably a slight net-positive.

                                            Same with Bono. Not nearly as helpful as he’d have you believe, but tax-avoidance and hypocrisy are relatively minor offenses as these things go. And he did inspire a lot of college students to read up on developing-world debt relief. So that’s something.

                                            And I still like a lot of their blow-the-roof-of-the-place Christianish numbers from the 80s.
                                            Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 16-01-2020, 01:50.

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                                              But even in his activism, Bono adopted a saviour complex. And even if it sprang from the genuine concern, the activism smacked of self-mythologising. Take debt relief: Jubilee 2000 was a movement initiated by activists and the Catholic Church in the 1990s. The bandwagon was rolling along when Bono jumped on it and made it seem as if it was his invention.

                                              Similarly his and Geldof's notion that they should be spokesmen for Africa without having a mandate or being subordinate to an African-led movement. There is a racist element to that.

                                              There were benefits to that, of course, but they came at the price of twattishness.

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                                                Originally posted by Sporting View Post
                                                Should everyone refuse to work in Israel? Sportspeople etc? I don't know what my opinion is, to be honest.
                                                On the question of boycotts, we must be guided by the oppressed. There is a call for a cultural boycott, to which individual artists have a choice to respond. If they decide to ignore the boycott, then that is a political statement. I don't think sports people, especially in team sports, have that choice. But clubs do, so fuck Barcelona. And the players who posed with Netanyahu, such as Messi, should be challenged on that, even if they were just following protocol.

                                                I see a fundamental difference between people supporting evil regimes such as those of Israel and voting Tory. The latter is an indicator of a troubling mindset, but supporting Israel is to support ethnic cleansing, mass murder (in Gaza) and an incremental genocide. You can tolerate Tory-voting as a serious character flaw; but if one tolerates the evil Israel does, then the word "twat" actually seems rather too trivial a description.

                                                When Hynde, Pharrell, Cave or Yorke wave the Israeli flag -- in fact or metaphorically -- they actively and deliberately allign themselves with an evil regime. I see little wiggle room for tolerance there.
                                                Last edited by G-Man; 16-01-2020, 10:16.

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                                                  Well said

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                                                    Nick Oliveri is another one who's committed violence against women.

                                                    The convicted paedophiles Gary Glitter and Ian Watkins belong on a totally different list.

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