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Bands with reputations lessened by subsequent solo careers

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    #26
    Originally posted by Sporting View Post
    I didn't hate New Order: I just thought that their music wasn't as nuanced or as impressive as that of Joy Division.
    Well, and Barney can't fucking sing for beans. See also Dave Hemingway of Beautiful South

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      #27
      I do know one Joy Division fan who absolutely loathes New Order, so they're out there.

      Wu-Tang Clan falls into this for me, 36 Chambers, while still a classic, is a step below the cream of the solo efforts, being Liquid Swords, Ironman, and Only Built 4 Cuban Linx in particular.

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        #28
        Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
        None of the solo Beatles output has made me think "Oh I really need to listen to more of the Beatles".
        "Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been."

        Can I point out that some of us hated Morrissey (and, indeed, The Smiths) in the 80s?

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          #29
          I can compartmentalize Morrissey as a Smiths lyricist from Morrissey the racist individual now and then but I understand why others cannot. I just feel that if you refuse to listen to The Smiths because of Moz's politics, you are choosing to miss out on a huge amount of potential musical and lyrical pleasure, e.g. great tunes and clever humour,

          The Beatles solo are totally separate from Beatles as a group; solo is a totally different set of dynamics, e.g. Lennon is in an artistic collaboration with Yoko that is totally different from his artistic fusion from McCartney, whereas Macca kept churning out good tunes as a soloist but with no edge or depth. George is the one case of having an album, "All Things Must Pass", that contains a lot of interesting stuff that continued his development in 1966-69 (but George already had a sideline going on with his Indian stuff from 1966 onwards, plus The Band from 1968).
          Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 12-01-2019, 01:11.

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            #30
            Not sure that I see how New Order constitute a 'solo' act.

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              #31
              Yeah, fair point. I was widening to spin-off acts.

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                #32
                Dollar

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                  #33
                  Have Black Sabbath or Deep Purple been diminished by the Spinal Tap-like pretensions of their past members or Ozzy's reality show career?

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                    #34
                    Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                    I can compartmentalize Morrissey as a Smiths lyricist from Morrissey the racist individual now and then but I understand why others cannot. I just feel that if you refuse to listen to The Smiths because of Moz's politics, you are choosing to miss out on a huge amount of potential musical and lyrical pleasure, e.g. great tunes and clever humour,
                    Much the same can be said of Gary Glitter. Or Michael Jackson. Or any musician whose legacy is tainted by personal failings.

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                      #35
                      Yes, and also none of the singers created their work in isolation so if you choose to exclude The Smiths, you lose Marr, Rourke and Joyce; if you exclude 'Thriller' you lose Quincy Jones' contributions, etc.

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                        #36
                        The difference between The Smiths and Glitter or MJ is that, if you were a fan, you had a personal relationship with Morrissey's lyrics of a kind you wouldn't have had with Glitter's or Jackson's. Morrissey built his reputation on making us believe that he was with us and one of us, so his racism and general vileness feels like a personal betrayal. He has poisoned the well of his sincerity.

                        Of course, listening to many Smiths songs now I realise Morrissey wrote much bloody awful poetry.

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                          #37
                          There's that and the fact that despite being an awful racist xenophobic cunt, Morrissey hasn't actually done anything illegal.

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                            #38
                            MJ hasn't been convicted of doing anything illegal either but you wouldn't have wanted him as a babysitter.

                            Morrissey, more than anything, strikes me as not the sharpest tool in the box. Somehow he wrote good songs without being very bright, even in non-academic intelligence of the kind that artists who left school at 16 often have.

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                              #39
                              Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                              MJ hasn't been convicted of doing anything illegal either but you wouldn't have wanted him as a babysitter.
                              True but we're both heading dangerously into the waters of whatabouttery here.

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                                #40
                                But even if we stick to undisputed facts, Jacko dangled a kid out of a window and presented some kids as his own who clearly had a different biological father. He was so in his own bubble that he could inflict all kinds of trauma without even noticing..

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                                  #41
                                  There was clearly no kind of "normal" moral compass there - probably would have helped his defence in a weird way... if he hadn't settled out of court.

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                                    #42
                                    Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                    MJ hasn't been convicted of doing anything illegal either but you wouldn't have wanted him as a babysitter.

                                    Morrissey, more than anything, strikes me as not the sharpest tool in the box. Somehow he wrote good songs without being very bright, even in non-academic intelligence of the kind that artists who left school at 16 often have.
                                    Morrissey is your pretty standard “”’stupid person who has been repeatedly and erroneously told they are clever””’. A dangerous category.

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                                      #43
                                      Anyone else amazed that Bono hasn't cut a solo release yet? I mean, if there's anyone ripe for the ego-driven Sting gambit of 'I'm bigger than this lot', it's fucking Bono.

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                                        #44
                                        Also, Morrissey has included some of his racism in his songs and writing - Bengali in Platforms, "Black face" in his biog - which Jackson and Glitter didn't - although the latter's "Do you wanna touch?" does take on another perspective in retrospect.

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                                          #45
                                          Originally posted by WOM View Post
                                          Anyone else amazed that Bono hasn't cut a solo release yet? I mean, if there's anyone ripe for the ego-driven Sting gambit of 'I'm bigger than this lot', it's fucking Bono.
                                          He's done a lot of collaborations, including an execrable "duet" with Sinatra which is actually a Karaoke-like overdub "phoned in" from Dublin. Sinatra must have been less than impressed.

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                                            #46
                                            Originally posted by Bordeaux Education View Post
                                            Also, Morrissey has included some of his racism in his songs and writing - Bengali in Platforms, "Black face" in his biog - which Jackson and Glitter didn't - although the latter's "Do you wanna touch?" does take on another perspective in retrospect.
                                            Full quote:

                                            "For the single Alma matters, on-the-beam Willie Garcia takes me to Skid Row in downtown Los Angeles for a back-alley photo shoot where I lounge against a hep automobile that stands neglected and stranded in time. A sullen, idle posture is wasted as a seven-foot homeless blackface jumps in with: ‘You show up on these streets one more time and I will have you killed.’ I am impressed by my own composure, and by how at least some people have the nerve to get straight to the point."

                                            And of course he can't write prose.

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                                              #47
                                              Indeed - that novel of his was fughing diabolical. (Why do so many performers suddenly think that they can write these things once they've had a bit of success?) But I don't think that there's anybody as revered who has tarnished his earlier reputation in quite the way that Morrissey has. But - in terms of his prejudices - I guess the signs were there.

                                              Originally posted by Bordeaux Education View Post
                                              Also, Morrissey has included some of his racism in his songs and writing - Bengali in Platforms, "Black face" in his biog - which Jackson and Glitter didn't - although the latter's "Do you wanna touch?" does take on another perspective in retrospect.
                                              The signs were also 'always there' with Glitter - from the provocative performances to the lyrics. I know it was 1973 (with all that that suggests), but he was pretty much the only one getting away with lines like 'I'm the man who put the bang in gang!' and (as you suggest) 'do you wanna touch me there?' on daytime TV and radio.

                                              (The latter's title is trimmed down to 'Oh Yeah' if ever included in Pick of the Pops - but that's only ever in the countdown, as the BBC obviously aren't going to play it.)

                                              I also have to agree with 3CR's take on Jacko, above.

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                                                #48
                                                Jacko almost certainly experienced some horrific abuse during his childhood and there's a Danny Baker interview circa 1980 where he is bullied by his brothers so something cyclical is played out in his biography but much is unknowable. It probably tarnishes Jackson 5 more than Thriller yet I still play Jackson 5 for the backing group and just the great arrangements. Their Xmas album is also a nice thing to play at that time of year versus many of the alternatives (second only to Spector as a Xmas album, I'd think).

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