The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

[Satchmo Distel]

The best Smiths songs IMHO are those from the Peel/Jensen sessions that were collected on Hatful of Hollow. After that, we get maybe two essential songs per album plus a list of singles that descended into self-parody far too often.

Enough to make them the best UK band of the 80's? Yes, although The Cure's records are miles ahead in terms of richness of sound, and the Cocteau Twins had the best harmonies. Ultimately it's the lyrics that carry The Smiths to the top of the decade's legacy, but even here Morrissey was a very uneven songsmith, and ultimately somewhat lazy, often contenting himself with an opening verse, a chorus and not much else. By the end he was just writing slogans, playing to the lowest end of his fanbase.

So whilst they were the best of the British 80's, I'd have to hesitate in comparing them to the best of other decades - Beatles, Stones, Clash, E. Costello, etc. And that's before we even consider the USA: Prince, Stevie Wonder, Beach Boys, The Band...

Thoughts?

[anton pulisov]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

Peel session of What Difference Does It Make is certainly better than the studio version, I'll give you that.

[MsD]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

HFOH is my favorite "album" by them.

Too samey in their output to be the best band of any decade, much as I love them.

[Diable Rouge]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

True, Hatful does have most of their best work, but There Is A Light stands the test of time, as does Morrissey's I Am The Quarry.

[WOM]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

satchmo76 wrote:

Stevie Wonder...

Thoughts?

Thinking WTF?

[Bored Of Education]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

Motorhead were the best UK band of the 80s. There were hundreds of better bands. I was in a better band in the 80s.

Even taking out my subjectivity (and yours and others), it is so disputable to be untrue. Adam & the Ants, The Godfathers, even bands I haven't got much or any time for like New Order and, as you mentioned, The Cure are probably as in with a shout for the miserablist long overcoat brigade.

Carry on with your appreciation of the Smiths by all means but "best UK band of the 80s" is a well-populated field

[anton pulisov]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

I reckon Talking Heads walk it for the USA, though.

[WOM]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

Funny thing, The Smiths. I was a big fan and still have most of their albums. I just never, ever, listen to them any more.

[hobbes]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

I don't own a long overcoat.
(any more)

[Satchmo Distel]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

Worn Old Carabela wrote:

Funny thing, The Smiths. I was a big fan and still have most of their albums. I just never, ever, listen to them any more.

I rarely listen to them. If I could be arsed, I would burn a CD of my 10 favorite tracks, but I have no desire to wade through Meat Is Murder or The Queen Is Dead. Those albums were important for providing a refuge from the vileness of British mid-80's culture, but I wouldn't make a claim for them having much relevance to 2011, except for the two songs per album that are keepers.

[WOM]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

The music is as it ever was, of course. I'm just not a mopey teenager any more so it doesn't speak to me as it once did. I'd rather put on some old Haircut 100 and be cheerful.

[Lucia Lanigan]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

hobbes wrote:

I don't own a long overcoat.
(any more)

Not heard that one. Later B-side?

[WOM]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

Alt. lyrics to I Don't Owe You Anything.

[G-Man]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

I used to love The Smiths more for Morrissey's lyrics; now I love them more for Marr's guityar (and Andy Rourke's bass).

I can see why one might not like The Smiths' music, and I can see how listening to The Smiths now might conjure uncomfortable memories of incidents that might have drawn one to them back when. But it is utter madness to downplay the quality of their catalogue. I mean, a ten song compilation of Smiths songs? Meat Is Murder and The Queen Is Dead as somehow boring?

Having said that, I think Mojo in their recent feature overstated the brilliance of The Queen Is Dead, and I don't share their delight in Morrissey's "pian-er" gag. I can see why one might regard Frankly Mr Shankly as a novelty song (i like it though), I've always hated Vicar In A Tutu, and the lyrics for Cemetery Gates are quite awful (though I love Marr's guitar).

But then there are the utterly majestic There Is A Light... and the masterpiece I Know It's Over, The Bioy With The Thorn In His Side, Bigmouth Strikes Again (though another one for the lyrics police)... Half the album is as good as any album. Two tracks are really bad. It's nit a bad strike rate.

Meat Is Murder has a bad reputation, and it is the weakest album; I suspect because of the boring and hectoring title track, and the turgid song that precedes it. But before that, there are eight songs that are well worth listening to again.

And then there are all the great b-sides and bonus tracks...

[Auntie Beryl]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

Yeah, the Smiths were great. As were New Order and the Cure.

Pet Shop Boys, though, they've released the songs that endure. As '80s bands' go.

[historyman]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

G.Man wrote:

I can see why one might not like The Smiths' music, and I can see how listening to The Smiths now might conjure uncomfortable memories of incidents that might have drawn one to them back when. But it is utter madness to downplay the quality of their catalogue.

That's the case with a lot of bands, isn't it? You can tend to judge bands based on your memories of that period rather than the actual music.

I got into The Smiths a couple of years after they split up, around 1990. At that time I remember reading a poll of music journos which asked two questions: Who were the best band of the '80s? and Who were the most overrated band of the '80s?

The Smiths topped both categories, which kinda illustrates how they polarise opinion.

I still listen to their debut album a bit, as well as their Singles collection. Reel Around The Fountain was and still is an astonishing song, esp given the subject matter, and is probably my favourite song of theirs.

But I can't listen to Morrissey singing for very long. One album, or a few songs at a time is enough for me.

Btw, I was disappointed with that Mojo piece as well. I don't think it delivered what I was expecting.

[Bored Of Education]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

I rarely listen to them. If I could be arsed, I would burn a CD

Oh, so would I

I can see why one might not like The Smiths' music

Actually, I appreciate the music a bit more as I get older, it is just when that grumpy old xenophobe starts whining on, I turn off

[delicatemoth]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

I think The Smiths are contenders for biggest gap between best ('William, It Was Really Nothing', 'How Soon Is Now') and worst ('Unhappy Birthday') in pop. Only Elvis and The Beatles rival them in that respect.

[Buzz Killington]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

G.Man wrote:

I used to love The Smiths more for Morrissey's lyrics; now I love them more for Marr's guityar (and Andy Rourke's bass).

I can see why one might not like The Smiths' music, and I can see how listening to The Smiths now might conjure uncomfortable memories of incidents that might have drawn one to them back when. But it is utter madness to downplay the quality of their catalogue. I mean, a ten song compilation of Smiths songs? Meat Is Murder and The Queen Is Dead as somehow boring?

Having said that, I think Mojo in their recent feature overstated the brilliance of The Queen Is Dead, and I don't share their delight in Morrissey's "pian-er" gag. I can see why one might regard Frankly Mr Shankly as a novelty song (i like it though), I've always hated Vicar In A Tutu, and the lyrics for Cemetery Gates are quite awful (though I love Marr's guitar).

But then there are the utterly majestic There Is A Light... and the masterpiece I Know It's Over, The Bioy With The Thorn In His Side, Bigmouth Strikes Again (though another one for the lyrics police)... Half the album is as good as any album. Two tracks are really bad. It's nit a bad strike rate.

Meat Is Murder has a bad reputation, and it is the weakest album; I suspect because of the boring and hectoring title track, and the turgid song that precedes it. But before that, there are eight songs that are well worth listening to again.

And then there are all the great b-sides and bonus tracks...

I'd say this is about it. I suspect, as others have said, that their music really means something when you're younger that gets lost in translation a little over the years. However, that's not to denigrate their music and, most importantly, I still get that thrill up my spine when the first chords come in.

[Bored Of Education]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

Thinking about it, even if you are narrowing your field down to miserable long overcoat bands, Echo & The Bunnymen beat The Smiths hands down

[Spearmint Rhino]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

The Smiths are the greatest rock'n'roll band who ever lived.

I say that whenever this subject comes up, every few months (well, two subjects: The Smiths, or the greatest rock'n'roll band who ever lived), so I'm just doing my part.

[Bored Of Education]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

They were much better.

The Smiths are the greatest rock'n'roll band who ever lived.

Given the subjective nature of the thread, I am not going to question the ludicrous nature of that claim. However, I am genuinely interested in why you say "rock'n'roll band". Even given the musical heritage of Marr and Morrisey with New York Dolls and whatnot and Marr's occasional Keefisms, I can't see much that is rock and roll about them. What tracks are particularly rock and roll? None of the singles that I heard

[Bored Of Education]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

Because I said so. It's that type of thread. Also, I don't think Morrisey's lyrics are all that but mainly because, even speaking as a lyricist, the lyrics aren't the most important part of a sing by any means.

Bad lyrics can't generally spoil a song in the same way as, for instance, really really bad atonal singing can. Unless, of course, it is stuff "I'm as serious as cancer when I say rhythm is a dancer". That could have been the best song ever and that lyric would have spoilt it. It wasn't.

On other hand, some stupid lyrics actually work better, for instance, most of AC/DC's back catalogue

[linus]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

Bored of Education wrote:

They were much better.

The Smiths are the greatest rock'n'roll band who ever lived.

Given the subjective nature of the thread, I am not going to question the ludicrous nature of that claim. However, I am genuinely interested in why you say "rock'n'roll band". Even given the musical heritage of Marr and Morrisey with New York Dolls and whatnot and Marr's occasional Keefisms, I can't see much that is rock and roll about them. What tracks are particularly rock and roll? None of the singles that I heard

The Smiths were many things, but they also were a rock&roll band, no doubt. You don't have to mount a long defense of this statement; you'd only need to listen again to the intros to "What Difference Does It Make", or "This Charming Man" to remove any doubts about this notion. In a sense they were a bit revolutionary, strutting through the 80s without any keyboards and with a definite rockabilly aesthetic.

I'm not sure I agree with SR's statement about them being the greatest ever, then again I'm not sure I disagree with that either... One thing is undeniable though, they were incredibly original and talented. And Johnny Marr is right up there with Hendrix and Clarence White as the greatest guitar player in rock history.

[G-Man]

The Smiths - Songs That Endure?

I don't say it often, but linus is absolutely right. "How Soon Is Now" is one of the very great rock & roll songs.

I was really looking forward to SR entering this thread.