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    Online cycling and/or baseball manager type timewasters?

    I started playing 'cycling for fun', which is decent and interesting but feels a bit clunky in the interface and it feels very much in the beta stage.

    Essentially looking for anything people have tried and would recommend along the lines of xperteleven.

    Edit:
    To fully finish this thought, now with access to a proper method of typing...

    I'm kind of looking for that online multiplayer set up of having at a team, setting tactics, getting results, moving up/down divisions, paying little to no money etc. I have been, and have sadly admitted that I will always be a fan of 'playing the spreadsheet' games like old CM.

    But burnt out as I am on CM/FM, I've tried MLB manager (2017) as an app (decent, buggy, addictive, fun with imaginary players, especially fun to see and follow careers). Baseball is especially suited for this type of thing being statastic in so many ways so there is always a thing to tweak or scout or manipulate.

    So besides an online baseball one, cycling? Same idea, just different sport. Statistics, tactics, training, competition. moderately addictive.
    Last edited by matt j; 07-02-2020, 19:49.

    #2
    I myself wondered this very thing, and came across Cycling Simulator (http://www.cyclingsimulator.com/) about two months ago. If you were to join and put Isle Of Man as your nationality then I would have some competition on the wee island.

    What's it like? Like X11, there are various tactical options for races but it's hard to work out exactly what they do.

    There is a ladder structure of 9 'divisions' - these are large and you progress through them as you gain points (so you can get 'promoted' more than once in a 90-day season). What division you're in determines what races you can enter. Divisions 8 and 9 are largely composed of people who haven't logged in for ages so their teams are dropping as they lose last season's points. I went through these in 2 weeks and am about to go up to Div 6, having been in 7 for 6 weeks.

    You start with a team of a dozen riders, one of whom will be an obvious leader (you can choose what speciality you prefer to have). You also start with some money. Don't spend this until you've worked out why you're spending it (i.e. don't buff dump stats for riders who will never be your leader). The idea is to develop the best rider as much as you can.

    There's a release-and-hire exchange for free agents, but I haven't tried the actual transfer market yet. It's between the seller and interested buyers, and I think you need to have had an active team for a month to participate.

    I haven't recommended it to the X11 assembled because I really can't tell if it's 'good' or not. I will basically eat any game that has 'cycling' on it, so I like it. It has weird little things like non-racing jobs you can sometimes send riders off to do; PA at a sports shop, for instance. Or 'political campaign' - apparently some resident of the Isle of Man will periodically pay me to have a domestique promote their ideology for ten days.

    I reckon it could be really tight and competitive if you get your team up to the level of the best and race with them, but there will be lengthy 'humps' on the way e.g. I've slowly edged my way up division 7 without even managing a podium finish, so div 6 is likely to be even harder.

    No options for private leagues, and no option for women's teams.
    Last edited by delicatemoth; 07-02-2020, 19:22.

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      #3
      Ah cool, I had looked at that one, but not as far as registering and learning the rules. You may have a rival local team soon.

      https://cyclingforfun.org/

      Has a few things going for it, being what appears to be a heavy training/tactics approach which I like a lot.

      It's basically impossible to judge how good the overall game experience it might have as a beginner, though I've been able to significantly improve from the starting team. It's got that definite 'feel' of playing a spreadsheet like ye old cm games, and two races a day to set tactics for and see results is pretty cool indeed.

      The website itself is pretty terrible, just for anyone checking it out. It's a little lame and garish, and not intuitive. The rules/hints can be found by bouncing through to the community forum, but even then a lot is guesswork trial and error.

      I think I'm into it for the potential I can see. A lot of improvements look possible (better 'special events during races', king of the hill/sprinter awards) but I'm not in the weeds enough to know if this actually possible.

      Probably originally a spanish language developer, is my guess.
      Last edited by matt j; 07-02-2020, 19:53.

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        #4
        delicatemoth - Lindfield Locknuts are registered and are based on the Isle of Man. I’ve also designed a jersey.

        And that’s the extent of it. I can’t promise I will get any further; there’s a lot to read and learn. But just in case I take to it thanks, and thanks matt j for the thread.

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          #5
          My favourite sport management game outside of FM is Motorsport Manager, which is basically an unlicensed F1 sim (there's other types, but that's the main game). The recent versions on either mobile or PC are sufficiently deep to hold interest for a long time without being too spreadsheety. Not sure if it's multiplayer though.

          For cycling, no idea, I'm afraid.

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            #6
            Originally posted by Sits View Post
            delicatemoth - Lindfield Locknuts are registered and are based on the Isle of Man. I’ve also designed a jersey.
            Fox River for me, Cliff Cuthbert being our leader.

            (FoxRiver on cyclingforfun)

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              #7
              I'll give it a go too.

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                #8
                It looks like we already have an instance of a head to head race, Antequera - Málaga.

                Your old boy of 42 average, is that your leader, sits/moth whoever I meant?
                Last edited by matt j; 08-02-2020, 22:35.

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                  #9
                  Kim Keithley, yep. Cool to see some of you have signed up! I was also lucky enough to get a young talent worth developing, Abner Carder. Hopefully he will be better than Keithley reasonably soon. Then I seek forum advice as to whether Keithley should be kept as a second leader or sold. Experienced forum-ites can be very helpful, it was one of them who tipped me off about the pointlessness of developing domestiques, for instance.

                  Depending on a rider's speciality there are three key stats. For climbers like Keithley, they are CL-DH-HL, so he is described as a 187 climber.

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                    #10
                    I kind of just jumped in without much research and probably splurged a bit with the cash on things I shouldn't have. I've learned at any rate.

                    Looking over my team for that race, and it's a bunch of nobodies. Not a real leader vs leader competition alas.

                    Hopefully all of us get into the "Mini Man Race". which is apparently our 'local'.

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                      #11
                      There is a method to create a ranking list of your own creation under settings, you may even see the one I created as an option to subscribe to.

                      Currently have three in my list, assuming I know moth's team name by default if bring the only team from the isle to have scored points.

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                        #12
                        So I’ve found you all. Etienne and I have very similar jerseys, as it happens.

                        All I’ve done is sell three rubbish players, book two races and buy cheap bike frames. But I think I know about 5% of this, seems daunting at present!

                        matt j are you looking at my Team Leader Clayton Gaby? I also booked on the TT race earlier in the day, Lecce ITT. My opponent looks formidable.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by matt j View Post
                          There is a method to create a ranking list of your own creation under settings, you may even see the one I created as an option to subscribe to.

                          Currently have three in my list, assuming I know moth's team name by default if bring the only team from the isle to have scored points.
                          Yes it’s Man 2 Man as I spotted Keithley on the roster. Plus Etienne’s Croesoswallt Dragons.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Sits View Post

                            matt j are you looking at my Team Leader Clayton Gaby? I also booked on the TT race earlier in the day, Lecce ITT. My opponent looks formidable.
                            yes, though I think I was confusing your leader with moth's at first.

                            Down at our level, I think most races could be against each other, if we are the few active teams.

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                              #15
                              I haven't seen the Mini Man Race. All the races I've seen are entry-gated by division except for the U23 races, but this may (hopefully) not be the case for national ones. A note on races - as far as I can tell, everything in the lower divisions is a one-day race. They have a few stage races higher up, but no massive grand tours (this is probably sensible for an online game, imagining the drop-out rate after all but a handful of teams are out of the running). They're all made up, which I really like, and I'd love to know how to submit races of one's own devising.

                              I can still only see my team in the Isle of Man standings, hopefully yours will all pop up once you've raced. Hope the admins don't think there is anything fishy going on with this triple-legged influx!

                              If you look at the standings of IoM riders, you'll see a few without teams. These are my old mooks, who scored a few placings in the beginner divisions before I ditched them. One has been picked up by another team, who have trained him up - http://www.cyclingsimulator.com/team...inby_Louramore

                              Blimey, climbing of 84! So why didn't I keep him and train him up? Because I have Abner Carder - http://www.cyclingsimulator.com/team/Man_2_Man#1

                              Both have CL potentials of Very Good (80-89). Louramore has Average (60-69) DH and HL potentials, Carder has Good (70-79) DH potential and Small (50-59) HL potential. Both add up to be potential 200+ climbers. But, according to my 'adviser', who I was specifically asking which of those two I should keep, DH is usually a bigger factor in climbers' races than Hills. Here are my adviser's maths:-

                              This is a simple choice then - train the Vg/Good/Small rider. Take a look at the race profiles for mountain races - in 90% of cases the CL stat is greater than DH stat which is then greater than HL. So a typical profile is like 7-5-3, or 8-6-4 or sth similar. The performance of riders in a race can be simplified to a calculation of rider stats * profile stat, so for example for a 7-5-3 profile:

                              Rider A:
                              CL=80*7=560
                              DH=60*5=300
                              HL=60 *3=180
                              Total: 1040

                              Rider B:
                              CL=80*7=560
                              DH=70*5=350
                              HL=50 *3=150
                              Total: 1060

                              Hence rider B will perform better in such race.

                              Also if you train the younger rider you will be able to profit from him longer - assuming you wont be selling him. If you sell then also a younger rider value would be higher.



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                                #16
                                I personally haven't gotten down to cutting the dead weight yet, though I've got several that look useless in the long-term.

                                I'm hoping I can farm those out to jobs for a while and stick them in the occasional same day race as the preferred do a different one.

                                I also haven't found a really promising talent in the squad yet. Best I've seen was a 'good' climber I think, so I'll at least move him towards being the leader on the stages where my sprinter isn't going to do much.

                                Agree with submitting race profiles, that sounds fun.
                                Last edited by matt j; 08-02-2020, 22:53.

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                                  #17
                                  Oh yeah, training stats high costs a lot. I just trained Carder from 74 to 79 CL - $18,000. It will be the same to train him up to 84*. That's why keeping both him and Louramore was a non-starter.

                                  *Training a stat to x9, then training it up 5 points, is a dodge to get 'higher level' training at the 'lower level' cost. In this instance I'll get points 81-84 at the '70s' rate, cos he was at 79 when he entered the training camp.

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                                    #18
                                    Points on the board. Leader was beaten by a technique specialist, but one of the domestiques snuck into 3rd.

                                    No real complaints for a first race.

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                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by delicatemoth View Post
                                      Oh yeah, training stats high costs a lot. I just trained Carder from 74 to 79 CL - $18,000. It will be the same to train him up to 84*. That's why keeping both him and Louramore was a non-starter.

                                      *Training a stat to x9, then training it up 5 points, is a dodge to get 'higher level' training at the 'lower level' cost. In this instance I'll get points 81-84 at the '70s' rate, cos he was at 79 when he entered the training camp.
                                      Er, so how do I train a rider? I’ve scouted some of mine to assess their potential and found one (Arthur Toole) who has Good potential at Hills, Sprints and Flat. So I’d like to train him but have literally no idea how. Apparently I have “no trainers assigned” but don’t know how to assign them.

                                      matt j is that a different race to the one we’re competing in? I don’t have any results yet.

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                                        #20
                                        You send them to training camps. Each training camp trains one attribute (you specify) up to 5 points, depending on how long you leave them there (hours, not days). You can send them to up to 4 camps between races. More details (cost etc) are in the manual (in the 'Community' section of the site).

                                        I don't know how trainers work. I think they are retired riders from your team.

                                        I think hill sprinters also like Technique as an attribute. There's a forum thread where you can ask opinions on whether it's worth training riders (that's where I found my 'adviser') - http://www.cyclingsimulator.com/forum/support/349551

                                        Also, I'm pretty sure they don't always reach their full potentials. This is more of a risk the older they get, and is a reason you should train their most important attribute first.

                                        I found Mini Man Race, it is indeed a beginner division race so I can't enter. As you may have noticed, beginner races will often have as few as two teams in, which is why you won't be in beginner division for long.
                                        Last edited by delicatemoth; 09-02-2020, 04:16.

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                                          #21
                                          Thanks dm

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                                            #22
                                            Unwin Treadwell has Very Good Climbing potential so is now at camp.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Literally took my until my last choice/chance to scout to find a player with a "very good" report, but I did find one. I haven't quite figured out the transfer/release economy side of things. It appears like signing a specific role player is better than trying to train up someone, but I have no idea if the transfer list is seeded with 'outsiders', has riders from discontinued teams, or is only the released from other teams (meaning they've already been evaluated and found failing).

                                              The one player I signed as a potential train-up is probably not worth it according to the scouts, but he's also better on average (after a boost to sprinting) then the rest of my team. So I take from that that, it depends? He's under 23, so I will try and find him a squad to work at that level I guess.

                                              I'm sure there is probably a calculation to determine at what point rotating through jobs/races balances out the cost of just releasing, but I'm not there yet.

                                              It's possible I'm missing it, but I wish there was a bit more detail on the 'results' side of things, specifically how the tactics worked out.


                                              Notice that somebody finished 1/2/3 in the Lecce Time Trial. Meanwhile, a head-to-head in Spain later today, and then Etienne and I battle it out in the Mini Man later this week.
                                              Last edited by matt j; 09-02-2020, 13:52.

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                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by matt j View Post
                                                Notice that somebody finished 1/2/3 in the Lecce Time Trial
                                                That was Sits!

                                                Originally posted by matt j View Post
                                                It's possible I'm missing it, but I wish there was a bit more detail on the 'results' side of things, specifically how the tactics worked out.
                                                Yup, this is a definite flaw.

                                                Originally posted by matt j View Post
                                                I have no idea if the transfer list is seeded with 'outsiders', has riders from discontinued teams, or is only the released from other teams (meaning they've already been evaluated and found failing).
                                                I think it's released riders, but that doesn't mean they can't be useful for team-mates. Look at some of the non-Manx riders on my team, particularly Rebuelta and Danielsen. All came from the free agent pool and all are improvements on the riders I got at the start. But yeah, you're unlikely to find a potential leader there and would probably have to spend far too much in scouting to make looking for one productive.

                                                A 7th-place finish for Danielsen in the Anderberg Special Nybro (one of the races with near-identical weighting to all attributes bar CB and TT) dragged us up to Div 6. E I E I E I O! Up the cycling ladder we go! Still have two Div 7 races to compete in though, as I'd already booked them in before the promotion. In less pleasant news, Abner Carder's CL appears to have maxed out at 80, the lowest possible in the Very Good band..

                                                I noticed that the top-rated Manx rider - the only one ahead of Keithley - is the 3rd best rated rider in the entire game. Toppling him has to be the long term aim!

                                                Is there any way we could get this thread moved to 'Games'?

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                                                  #25
                                                  Btw, I registered with Cycling For Fun and it looks quite bewildering. Any tips on what to do right at the start?

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