Tuesday knockouts (and associated VAR grumbles)

[imp]

And is, of course, a completely unnatural position.

Janik - good call, I think I‘ll go with that. Or the one I use when they‘re appealing for fouls, Nix da! (Nothing there!)

[wingco]

Just to add to the chorus deploring the changes in rules which make getting (and converting) a penalty kick. As Ursus said, it is a disproportionate punishment in the first place; they should be tweaking the rules to make penalties harder, not easier to come by. However, I suspect the powers that be want more penalties because of the decisive moments they afford. But there have been far too many awarded in this world cup (sucks as it is being used as a guinea pig tournament), with last night's penalty sucking in particular.

[ursus arctos]

If I wanted to be really conspiratorial, I would suggest that it isn't just the inherent drama (cf. Handke/Wenders), but also the fact that it is quite possible to insert a "high leverage" advert on both sides of the penalty kick.

[Janik]

sucks as it is being used as a guinea pig tournament

It's no more being used as a guinea pig than last summer's Men's one was. We shouldn't lose sight of that. The date for rules changes in the sport has been 1st June for a number of years. I don't remember the last time a Men's World Cup began without the media reporting on a number of brand new rules innovations for players to cope with. The big one last summer was VAR, of course (though there was also the a rejig on the offside law re: the timing of flags and a few other bits and bob). As we all agree, VAR is about the most major change made to Football in decades.

[ursus arctos]

I don't really agree with that.

At the men's tournament, there were referees who had had some experience with VAR in domestic competition before they got to Russia.

That isn't the case with the women referees, as made painfully apparent by the fact that the VAR staff is entirely male, with that being justified by FIFA claiming that no female officials had sufficient experience with the system.

I also don't believe that any of the players have played in a domestic competition where VAR was in force.

[Janik]

Rule changes pre-Men's tournaments before that.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36256441
https://gadgets.ndtv.com/others/feat...rld-cup-534597
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...10/8690435.stm

And that was as far back as I could be bothered to look. It's clear that FIFA are consistent in making changes on 1st June. I'm guessing that is so they fit with the seasons of the big European Leagues.

[Amor de Cosmos]

That isn't the case with the women referees, as made painfully apparent by the fact that the VAR staff is entirely male, with that being justified by FIFA claiming that no female officials had sufficient experience with the system.

There is usually one female VAR official in the booth. Never, so far as I can see, more than one, and possibly the same one, for every match.

[ursus arctos]

I can't be certain, but these all look like male names to me.

There may well be a women in the "VAR Operation Room", but I don't think that she is an official VAR

[Janik]

Did you know coaches would be sent off if they attempted to enter the VAR Operation Room? I suppose they might bring a secret camera or something and starting taking photos of the big board...

[Amor de Cosmos]

I can't be certain, but these all look like male names to me.

There may well be a women in the "VAR Operation Room", but I don't think that she is an official VAR

Bugger me, how many people are involved in this operation? It's not a rocket launch

[ursus arctos]

Read it and weep

[treibeis]

imp, hasn't this handball interpretation been in effect in Germany for at least a season anyway? I haven't watched many games, for work-related reasons, in the last five years, but those that I've seen in the last twelve months always, without exception (and, obviously, without VAR as well) had handball controversies similar to those mentioned thus far.

[Janik]

There has been a major rewrite of the handball law. But all that has done is seen it updated to match the interpretation that already generally held sway at the top level. Removing the mismatch between theory and practice was patently urgent. The rewrite is fine for those refs who followed the crowd on how to look at such incidents. For them, nothing changes. However, if a ref was someone who read their rulebook and applied what is said therein (shocking idea!), then it is a significant alteration. From what imp has said, I think he would fall into the category of trying to do things as per the actual laws.

[Janik]

Read it and weep

Assistant Video Assistant Referees. Do they make the tea, then?

The responsibility breakdown does give a potential explanation why the USA's very solid second-half penalty shouts against Spain were not dealt with. They really are just watching the broadcast TV feed, and therefore it really is down to when the TV Director gets around to cueing up the replay of off-the-ball incidents. If it's like the Ertz one, and a good five minutes later, then the moment has long gone. This is another gaping hole in the current VAR protocol.

[imp]

There has been a major rewrite of the handball law. But all that has done is seen it updated to match the interpretation that already generally held sway at the top level. Removing the mismatch between theory and practice was patently urgent. The rewrite is fine for those refs who followed the crowd on how to look at such incidents. For them, nothing changes. However, if a ref was someone who read their rulebook and applied what is said therein (shocking idea!), then it is a significant alteration. From what imp has said, I think he would fall into the category of trying to do things as per the actual laws.

Yes, I‘ve tried to stick to the idea of intent and ball-to-hand etc. Those guidelines definitely needed improvement and/or clarification. What we now have is, as Janik says, a concrete manifestation of what the top level of the game has been trying to teach us by stealth (cf. my earlier anecdote about the US reffing seminar). And the guidelines are much, much worse than what we had before. And the decisions, as we‘re seeing at WWC 2019, are unrelated to justice. Effectively, goals are being awarded for an ‚offence‘ that the defender has no way of preventing.

[johnr]

I've seen quite a few goal kicks not clear the penalty area before an outfield player touches the ball. As the referee has missed an infringement, should VAR call it back?

[tracteurgarcon]

I've seen quite a few goal kicks not clear the penalty area before an outfield player touches the ball. As the referee has missed an infringement, should VAR call it back?

IIRC the rule has changed, defenders now don’t have to receive the ball outside the penalty area.

[johnr]

Ah. Ta.