Group F: SWE-USA-CHI-THA

[Kevin S]

DPRK suffered the long-term consequences of a doping ban they received in 2011. Although their absence weakens these finals, I don't think they were cheated out of a place given the original offence, any more than Sharapova was cheated of a seeding after her drugs ban. In addition, success for DPRK would be a kind of sportswashing in the same way that all shitty governments benefit from any sporting success their national teams accrue. And whilst the current US regime is shitty, it cannot (yet) be compared with North Korea's camps and torture state. China are probably the closest parallel among the qualified teams, whilst the Saudis, Iran and the hosts might be parallels from Russia 2018 (and Qatar for 2022 obviously).

A fair point, yes, it was ultimately of their own doing, But missing out because they didn't rack up quite enough goals against the minnows seems tough,

(And that is an example of why the US 'had every right' to score as many as they could.)

Ian K of this parish has written a piece on it:
http://twohundredpercent.net/2019-wo...morning-after/

[Amor de Cosmos]

Maybe this is a cultural national thing.

[ursus arctos]

Didn't Wickenheiser get grief when Canada destroyed Slovakia something like 16-0 in the Olympics?

[Amor de Cosmos]

I don't remember, it's possible. Women's international hockey has been a two team dominant sport forever. Blowouts are routine.

[ursus arctos]

From this piece, it looks as if the US could have learned from her.

I don’t think it helps our sport, but at the same time we know moving forward every Olympics the competition gets better,” Team Canada captain Hayley Wickenheiser told Reuters. “You can’t lose sight of that, it’s just part of developing the game.

The one-sided game was predictable, with Canada the two-time defending Olympic gold medalists and Slovakia making its Olympic debut.

“I always remind people, on the men’s side it was like this early on lopsided scores for sure,” said Wickenheiser. “It’s the Olympic Games, you don’t come here to just dump the puck and sit back.”

[Hot Pepsi]

One fix would be to say that any goal differential beyond, say, six doesn’t count toward GD in the standings tiebreaker. And maybe not have so many automatic qualifier slots from each confederation. Make the Thailands of the world win a playoff with Austria et al.

The US women shouldn’t feel bad about “celebrating.” They’re just trying to encourage each other. And some of the goal-scorers, it was their first (and perhaps last) in a World Cup.

It’s not their fault that the rules limit substitutions or encourage running up the score. And they have to continue to get better whenever they can, so just giving up trying would be giving up a chance to work on their offense, not to mention be an insult to Thailand.

[Hot Pepsi]

From this piece, it looks as if the US could have learned from her.

Slovakia should be better, given how good their men’s teams are and the overall interest in the game there.

Maybe support for women’s sport simply collapsed after the fall of the iron curtain, because Russia and the Czechs aren’t really contenders in women’s hockey or women’s soccer either. But I suspect that if women’s hockey has been in the Olympics during the Cold War, they would have found a way to dominate it.

[Amor de Cosmos]

The US women shouldn’t feel bad about “celebrating.” They’re just trying to encourage each other. And some of the goal-scorers, it was their first (and perhaps last) in a World Cup.

I think that's the key. Canadians rarely do that, it's considered disrespectful. Americans don't feel the same way.

[ursus arctos]

I've seen reports that the celebrations were choreographed (even those at and after the 10th). I'm not sure that anyone else would do that.

[Janik]

Maybe support for women’s sport simply collapsed after the fall of the iron curtain, because Russia and the Czechs aren’t really contenders in women’s hockey or women’s soccer either. But I suspect that if women’s hockey has been in the Olympics during the Cold War, they would have found a way to dominate it.

I'll leave the hypothetical aside and note that in Women's sports in lots of places, but particularly in the Czech Republic and Russia, there is a behemoth hovering up almost all the athletic young girls. You know which one. And it manages that because there is a pot of real, proper gold to chase.

[ursus arctos]

There aren't that many figure skaters . . .

[Nocturnal Submission]

I've been trying to decide where I stand on this issue all day and I've come down on the side of the US. I tend to think that a team easing off against an opponent, essentially out of pity, is worse than simply playing to the maximum level for the full 90 minutes. I think the latter is more respectful, as long as it doesn't involve showboating or excessive goal celebrations, (which may have happened but, frankly, I really can't blame anyone for being joyful at scoring a goal at a World Cup finals, no matter how many others had preceded it).

[Amor de Cosmos]

Another Canadian PoV...

[Hot Pepsi]

Canadians would have apologized, perhaps. Certainly, that’s the stereotype.

But women in general need to stop apologizing for taking up space in the world.

[linus]

Canadians would have apologized, perhaps. Certainly, that’s the stereotype.

But women in general need to stop apologizing for taking up space in the world.

They're not "taking space", they're mercilessly crushing other women that didn't grow up getting six figure scholarship packages for kicking a ball around. No need to pinkwash that kind of obnoxious cultural insensitivity.

The only good thing that can come out of this is for a rule change in GD tabulation, where you could for example set a maximum of 7 goal differential count in a single game, which would eliminate some of the incentive to run up the score beyond 7-0, though in the case of this bunch of yanquettes, it probably wouldn't diminish their bloodlust, it would just take out their one valid excuse for their appalling lack of sportsmanship.

[Hot Pepsi]

Germany is richer than Brazil. By your logic, they should have let them win. But, of course, nobody would say that about a men’s game.

How dare you accuse me of pinkwashing - which doesn’t mean what you seem to think it means - when you have such a condescending attitude toward the Thai players. They’re grown women and excellent athletes by any normal standard. They don’t need you to protect their honor.

The US players are not, probably, the kind of people I’d want to hang out with. Wound too tight. Too competitive. Too confident. But that’s probably true of the Thai team too. They just aren’t quite as good at soccer. No shame in that.

And, has been explained, this isn’t fucking t-ball. There is no mercy rule and goal differential matters, so each goal was actually something to celebrate. And, btw, nobody told Thailand to just give up.

Besides. It’s just mostly non-contact game. It’s not boxing or American football. Nobody was in danger because the score was so lopsided.

[Uncle Ethan]

I reckon the Thai players would rather ship 20 goals than be called "housewifes" you pompous prick. And what the fuckety-fuck has cultural sensitivity got to do with this? Were the Hungarians culturally insensitive to El Salvador when they put 10 past them in 1982?

Some of the reactions to this have been beyond belief. What on earth does a team do if it reaches whatever random number people select as "enough" goals. Do they boot the ball into touch every time they get it? Allow the Thais to score a goal for every two they concede? You can shove your rule change in GD tabulation up your arse.

[Sporting]

I'm on the side of score as many as you can but after a few goals tone down the celebrations. Isn't that what most teams at whatever level do as a matter of course?

[Hot Pepsi]

You don’t like my idea of limiting how many goals count to goal differential? Maybe that wouldn’t really help, because soccer doesn’t really have a natural way to slow down. Subs are limited. You can’t just “run the ball up the middle every play” like in American football or empty the bench like in most sports (including American football).

I suppose a team can just put 11 players behind the ball and play all defense, but if one team is really dominant, they’re still going to have a lot of possession, in which case they could only avoid goals by just kicking it into touch. That’s a farce. It would be better to just have a mercy rule than promote that sort of thing.

The only fix is to have a smaller field for at least the foreseeable future and/or have more playoffs and accept there will be more European teams and fewer Asian teams.

[Hot Pepsi]

I'm on the side of score as many as you can but after a few goals tone down the celebrations. Isn't that what most teams at whatever level do as a matter of course?

This was uncharted territory. I don’t think they had thought all that through. They just reacted reflexively. If they start winning by 10 on a regular basis, maybe a new protocol will take hold.

[Uncle Ethan]

You don’t like my idea of limiting how many goals count to goal differential? Maybe that wouldn’t really help, because soccer doesn’t really have a natural way to slow down. Subs are limited. You can’t just “run the ball up the middle every play” like in American football or empty the bench like in most sports (including American football).

I suppose a team can just put 11 players behind the ball and play all defense, but if one team is really dominant, they’re still going to have a lot of possession, in which case they could only avoid goals by just kicking it into touch. That’s a farce. It would be better to just have a mercy rule than promote that sort of thing.

The only fix is to have a smaller field for at least the foreseeable future and/or have more playoffs and accept there will be more European teams and fewer Asian teams.

I thought it was Linus' idea and my response was to him.

[Sporting]

10-0 against T&T a couple of years ago. They do know how to do more discreet celebrations:

[Janik]

I'm sure the US team have all participated in many blow outs through their careers, both senior and junior. Mostly, but maybe not entirely, on the winning sides.

As for celebrating more against the Thais than in an Olympic qualifier (vs Puerto Rico not T&T), it's almost like scoring a goal at the World Cup Finals is more personally significant, isn't it?

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

I remember when sub-Saharan African sides turned up at men's World Cups and not only got absolutely stuffed but were ridiculed for apparently not knowing the rules. Sixteen years later they were beating World champions in opening games.

[Nesta]

Are you seeing double?